[SPOILERS] A new Thread [SPOILERS]

[Mardoc]

Welcome, Mardoc. It would be great, if you could take over right now.

Ok, can do.

There is a galley with a settler going west of Mugla to settle the stone. There is a worker west of Bursa on Furungy's border. It will go to the stone island.

There is a workboat east of Izmir for the 2nd Sinop seafood.

There is a galley with 2 workers south of Konya. The workers go to the banana-rice island city, unload in the city, connect the rice. Then they do the banana with the 3rd worker that is roading the banana tile.

All good to hear. First reaction is - holy cow, there's still a lot of good land left to grab! Glad to see settlers are en route to it - and definitely need to add some more, especially to that awesome stuff out east. But...workers first. 15 was probably enough until you started pushing into the jungle, but it definitely feels light now.

Also looks like we've got no Courthouses, no religion? Need to try to fix both of those; I think I'm just going to research up to Monotheism and adopt one of the religions that's spread to us from a neighbor. OrgRel ought to help get infra up.

After that - maybe push for Optics. Seems like most of the empire is coastal and it's getting more so - I'll feel a lot more comfortable with a bit more of a navy.

If you have any questions, ask.

Have you fought anyone? Any neighbors who might feel vindictive?

Do you mind if I rename the cities to have a non-Ottoman theme?

[spacetyrantxenu]

You can use the F4 glance screen to get an idea of the game's history in terms of war declarations. And scrolling back through the event log if you have the patience to read through it. But your shiny new Ottoman empire was the bane of your western neighbor Rome for quite a while. And there was a bit of a spat with Azza's China, though they're under new management down there so who can say if there's any lingering vindictiveness. For lurker amusement just assume that all of your neighbors and non-neighbors hate your guts and want you to die. Then plan accordingly (for WAAAAAR!!!)

[Mardoc]

Thanks, Xenu. That explains how Rome is as small as she appears - well, perhaps that plus choosing to be Aggressive.

(for WAAAAAR!!!)

Oh, I will. Just...not quite yet. After I address the empty mainland portions, empty islands, and Courthouse/religion situations, probably a war or two will make sense. Both neighbors seem nearly even in tech, and in their UU era. That's a poor way to start a spat. Some time with infra and growth ought to let us pull ahead, and then take advantage. Maybe with Janissaries it'll make sense...at least a bit of nibbling.

I'm going to try to avoid the mistake of my last game, going all-in on a neighbor when I can't get the job done. The more reliable method seems to be a series of small wars, each time grabbing a bit more and making the economy difference bigger for the next war.

Rome, in particular, looks vulnerable in the long run, since they've already had pressure applied and it shows. But not right now, when the border cities are stuffed with Praets and Longbows.

China could be a good target in the Galleon era. With the long/skinny world map, taking them out could give us one fewer front to defend. And long coastlines are the devil to defend - so it'll be better to go on offense.

One thing to add: I'm quite impressed by the way you set up the capital, flugauto. Looks like it may be the best city in the world. I did swap away from Hammam to workers, though, even though it could definitely use both the happy and the health. I want to boost up the rest of the empire at the moment.

[flugauto]

All good to hear. First reaction is - holy cow, there's still a lot of good land left to grab! Glad to see settlers are en route to it - and definitely need to add some more, especially to that awesome stuff out east. But...workers first. 15 was probably enough until you started pushing into the jungle, but it definitely feels light now.

Yes, there is a lot fo land to settle. I did not build more workers, because I settled tight and most of the west, the center, and the south is improved, so most of the workers can all go east.

Also looks like we've got no Courthouses, no religion? Need to try to fix both of those; I think I'm just going to research up to Monotheism and adopt one of the religions that's spread to us from a neighbor. OrgRel ought to help get infra up.

I did not build Courhhouses because the cities cost less then 10g and I am not Organised. The cities pay for themselves at size 1 or 2, so getting more cities is better than Courthouses. I also thought to build Castles everywhere before Courthouses and skip Economics till Assembly Line.
Yes, I failed at getting a religion, missed Confu by 1 turn. There are only 3 cities with different religions, but these religion spreads happened only the last 10 turns. I do not know if spreading a foreign religion and running an expensive civis is worth it.

After that - maybe push for Optics. Seems like most of the empire is coastal and it's getting more so - I'll feel a lot more comfortable with a bit more of a navy.

This seems like a good idea. I did not think about Optics, I wanted to go Guilds-Gunpowder or Nationalism.

Have you fought anyone? Any neighbors who might feel vindictive?

There was no real war. I did some harrassment against Furungy's Rome early. But Furungy gets 2 happiness resources for his only wines and he has Sian to his west to attack, so he should not want a war. And Azza did a sail-by and razed an empty city.

Do you mind if I rename the cities to have a non-Ottoman theme?

Feel free to do it.

[Mardoc]

Yes, there is a lot fo land to settle. I did not build more workers, because I settled tight and most of the west, the center, and the south is improved, so most of the workers can all go east.

Yeah, it's not like any cities are working unimproved tiles except out east. It's more that I want to rush a bunch of settlers east and don't feel that I can just yet.

I did not build Courhhouses because the cities cost less then 10g and I am not Organised. The cities pay for themselves at size 1 or 2, so getting more cities is better than Courthouses.

Hmm, that's a good point. Not that Courthouses are a bad thing, just not as urgent as I was thinking, when there's still lots of land to be grabbed. I'm not used to trade routes being this profitable

Of course, we'll push that cost up as we grab more land, so a round of Courthouses will be in order anyway soon enough. But...not yet.

I also thought to build Castles everywhere before Courthouses and skip Economics till Assembly Line.

I don't know if I like this idea. Well, let me rephrase. With stone, and the value of trade routes, castles will definitely be worth building. But I don't know that delaying Economics will be worth doing. Although it's not a decision that needs to be made yet, so I won't worry too much right now.

Yes, I failed at getting a religion, missed Confu by 1 turn. There are only 3 cities with different religions, but these religion spreads happened only the last 10 turns. I do not know if spreading a foreign religion and running an expensive civis is worth it.

I'm not sure I'd build a shrine anyway at this point, even if we had our own religion. Great Prophets are hard to get, and so many other things are valuable. Golden Ages in a big empire are a prime example (#1 in food, I see ).

I want the +25% to buildings, it'll pay for the missionary in just 200 hammers of buildings, which is something like a library and forge. I expect to want, most places, library, forge, courthouse, granary, lighthouse, market, castle, and maybe barracks, stables, grocer, hammam - and this is just off the top of my head. Bonus hammers will be very useful.

I also want to boost our culture - I guess you popped borders most places with Caste Artists? That works, but in case of war it'll be useful to have higher defense bonuses and more overlapping cultural control. And there's even a Roman city we might flip.

The happiness ought to be useful too, eventually. Looks like you've gotten more happy recently, a lot of cities have a lot of room in their happy caps; but we'll grow up soon enough.

Later on we'll want the option for Pacifism and Theocracy. We're Spiritual, so we ought to be able to use them both productively. Shock Janissaries could be a lot of fun vs. Praets, perhaps. And with an empire as big as this one, we'll want all the Golden Ages we can manage.

This seems like a good idea. I did not think about Optics, I wanted to go Guilds-Gunpowder or Nationalism.

Well, those both would be useful paths as well. I just don't think they're especially urgent, since we're not planning to attack anyone. But they'll definitely come too.

There was no real war. I did some harrassment against Furungy's Rome early. But Furungy gets 2 happiness resources for his only wines and he has Sian to his west to attack, so he should not want a war.

I keep forgetting, we don't have to be the best military, just tougher than the other options.

[flugauto]

I see now that it would be a stupid idea to ignore the Organised Religion civic. Then it is only a question which religion to use. There are Zanth's Hindu, Sian's Christianity and 2metra's Juda.

[Mardoc]

I see now that it would be a stupid idea to ignore the Organised Religion civic. Then it is only a question which religion to use. There are Zanth's Hindu, Sian's Christianity and 2metra's Juda.

We have Confucianism, not Judaism - which is probably what you meant . As of this turn, we've got Buddhism too



I'm thinking I'll go with whichever's in the city with most production/least else needing done. Well, except Zanth in 1st place probably doesn't need a boost, so strike Hindu. I think that means Confucianism, out of Konya. Whoever's got that holy city isn't actually in the religion, so I doubt there's much risk of shrine income either.

I think I'll revive my city-by-city report scheme. One city/turn.

First up, the glorious capital.



Istanbul (not Constantinople) has 16 glorious pop points, a bunch of towns, and a few other pre-towns. And Academy, and Bureaucracy, and in general this city is worth probably half of the entire rest of the empire.

It still needs its Hammam to enable growth even further; it would also benefit from Monasteries and all the rest of the commerce buildings as we unlock them. Although I'm having it work on workers for the moment, I can't do that for too much longer - all infra here is good infra. I'm pretty much just waiting for a couple other cities to hit their happiness caps, then they'll take its place in producing for the empire while the capital focuses on its own glory.

Haven't yet come up with a good name for it. Maybe take inspiration from your password and make this be Gandalf.

[flugauto]

I think Confu is Zanth's too.

Furungy conquered several cities from Sian and I did not scout there, so the minimap might be inaccurate.

We do not have corn. I tryed to buy it from Furungy, but he asked 12gpt. Azza had extra corn, but the war happened and I could not try to buy corn.

[Mardoc]

I think Confu is Zanth's too.

Shoulda guessed, CoL is generally useful and a frontrunner had every reason to want it. Still, if he's not using it, it won't be his first pick to shrine.

Furungy conquered several cities from Sian and I did not scout there, so the minimap might be inaccurate.

Looking at city names, he got 3, and has also settled a couple. We're still ahead but not as far as I thought.

We do not have corn. I tryed to buy it from Furungy, but he asked 12gpt. Azza had extra corn, but the war happened and I could not try to buy corn.

Hmm. Well, I see a short term likely solution:


Not quite a fair trade but the spices weren't doing anything for us. Should tie him to us some more, especially if he decides not to research Calendar for a while.

Mid-term, this is a reason to push guilds higher in the priority list - Grocers with our current resources and the bananas in progress will be worth 4 health, +25% gold. Istanbul would want a grocer for either half of the building, but both together is awesome.

Long-term, I note one of the Roman corn is on our border.

Since I have a little time, I'll talk about another city.




Edirne is pretty solid - not nearly as awesome as Istanbul, but solid. Well grown - although I did fire the specialists temporarily to pick up those next two sizes. That'll delay our Golden Age, but I think 6 extra commerce/turn will make up for it. And it's probably still on the early side for a GA anyway. I will be rehiring them, though, as this seems the best place at the moment for GPP. Haven't figured out our National Epic site yet

Edirne's got a good start on infrastructure, with Granary/Lighthouse/Forge/Library. It definitely would benefit from finishing the Market and growing some more, which of course was in progress. I also think this is the right place for Moai, although I'll delay starting that until we get our stone hooked up. Why here? Well, although it's not the maximum number of water tiles of any of our cities, it's got a decent hammer supply and already has a lot of population. That means we can put Moai up quickly and get an immediate benefit from it. In contrast, our stone city will have 18 water tiles to Edirne's 14 - but it's currently size 0, with a lot of infrastructure and growth left to go. Edirne might produce more hammers from Moai over the course of the game; it'll certainly produce them sooner.

After we scrape up some more happiness for Istanbul, Edirne will be surrendering that plains town in favor of more coast; you just can't compete with Bureau/Academy. I also intend to pave over that grass farm and replace it with a cottage or workshop. We've got enough food here without it.

So, to summarize: short term, it's an excellent commerce site, and it's got enough food that it'll give us a Great Person or two. All those lovely Financial Coasts and lakes deserve a Moai, a bunch of commerce multipliers, and to grow the city as far as we can. At that point, Edirne will be a nice jack of all trades, giving us solid hammers and commerce.

[Mardoc]

Holy cow, there's like three people updating? In *this* era, where it's arguably anyone's game (well, anyone but Sian) but we're well past 'moved scout, hit enter'?

New plan: Physics beeline, so that we can keep an eye on the world for the lurkers.