[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[Jabah]

If you build a monument in Kuat, you should build a WB at some point for the fish, that would be priority over granary I think.

What is wrong with wonsan that you want to raze it, it could be a nice commerce city, with river cottage and sea food and it is very close to your capital (and fit nicely in dotmap with other cities)

[Whosit]

If you build a monument in Kuat, you should build a WB at some point for the fish, that would be priority over granary I think.

What is wrong with wonsan that you want to raze it, it could be a nice commerce city, with river cottage and sea food and it is very close to your capital (and fit nicely in dotmap with other cities)

You're right, a Work Boat at some point would be nice, but I'm not sure that the Borders will pop early enough for it to be a priority right now. The Granary kind of fills that function short-term by doubling the city's growth rate.

And there's nothing really wrong with Wonsan, but here's the reasons I wouldn't keep it:

1) Maintenance: I'm already going to be hovering at 30% science, so I have to be extremely judicious with any new cities.

2) Holding it: Unless Korea has a skeleton army, which will no longer be the case, I will have to devote resources to protecting that city. I will probably have enough on my hands just taking the existing Korean cities.

3) Location: Although it's fairly close to my capital, Wonsan doesn't earn me anything strategically. Taking P'yongyang will secure everything east of it for me. Remember, the HRE is still out there, trying to settle as much as possible. If I get a town to my west, I can try to make a claim for everything near it.

I may do some World Builder testing to see if the maintenance would become a major problem. It's possible that it will quickly pay for itself with several riverside cottages. However, reasons 2 and 3 are also important, so I'll have to wait and see.

I'll probably just bypass the city early on, anyway. It's the only Korean city currently on a hill, so the Archers that plako is certain to stock up in there are going to be even greater trouble. It might be better to just go past it and attack Seoul and P'yongyang instead.

[Whosit]

For some reason, I feel that I haven't given you lurkers anything nice lately. So a took a few screen shots of nothing important because everyone likes pictures.

One thing to note: Writing will be quite cheap for me! It's like half the cost in my sim, probably because half of everyone has it already. Masonry, which I'm still getting first, costs the same, it looks like, so I doubt anyone has it already. Can't hurt to get the Marble hooked up, though.

So, for the first whip of my game, I'm whipping a Worker into a Worker in Imperial Center:



A granary would be nice to have, but no time for that! I'll have my first Praetorian very soon. I'll try to do as suggested and log in early to move him. If they see him, or figure out what I did via watching the spy numbers, so it goes.

Here are the Core Worlds (or what I have so far):



You can see that P'yongyang sports an Archer now. And the Deep Core:



Not too spectacular just yet.

On an interesting note, both Seoul and P'yongyang are working on a Worker/Settler. I bet Seoul is doing Settler, and P'yongyang is training a Worker. I wonder if they will be whipped. Plako seems to favor the whip a bit more than I do. I would consider whipping Byss more, but every time I whip it I would lose a substantial amount of income, so I don't think that's a very good option right now.

Way up north, Thannos has to heal for 6 turns because a Barbarian Warrior decided that he'd rather attack a Shock Warrior on a hill than go after an unprotected Worker. (The Barbarian was at the spot that Thannos now stands. I'd rather not waste the 6 turns, but I don't want to lose my scout due to carelessness.)



I've also decided to send one of the Warriors I have at home out east to clear some more of the black tiles around the rice. I really want to know what's there! Maybe he'll fogbust a bit, too. My sims suggest that I'll be seeing a large number of Barbarians pretty soon. I'll probably want Axemen in both of my eastern towns if I can afford to do so.

Not much else to say right now. I'm working off of my plan, though I still want to refine it a little. The peace treaty ends in three turns, but I'm in no condition to attack just yet. A Praetorian and an Axeman can't take a city held by an Archer, and I'm pretty sure that plako has at least one Chariot in reserve.

I haven't spoken with Korea since the aborted war earlier; I don't imagine that we'll be speaking much now.

[MWIN]

Aren't archers toast when attacked by Praetorian? Can’t you prevail if you bring have same number of Praets as archer defenders?

A Praetorian and an Axeman can't take a city held by an Archer, and I'm pretty sure that plako has at least one Chariot in reserve.

I haven't spoken with Korea since the aborted war earlier; I don't imagine that we'll be speaking much now.

[Whosit]

Aren't archers toast when attacked by Praetorian? Can’t you prevail if you bring have same number of Praets as archer defenders?

Theoretically. But I subscribe to the School of Murphy's law, so unless I bring overwhelming numbers, the odds aren't in my favor. Besides, I know that plako has more troops than I can see. They are possibly in Seoul, but I don't know for sure. Unless plako and Broker accelerate the rate of troop production, I'll wait until I have 6-8 Praets to march.

It might not be bad for me if they make another city, though it depends where they put it. If nothing else, it's one more location that they have to defend.

[haphazard1]

De-lurking for a moment due to curiosity.

You have considered building a granary in several cities (Imperial Center, Kuat, maybe more), but seem to be favoring more troops instead. Obviously your need for units is pressing, but your expansive trait gives you cheap granaries. This is a big growth booster and is my favorite aspect of being expansive.

Maybe you do need the workers and troops first, but whipping your capital without a cheap granary first? Ouch.

Anyway, thanks for posting the pictures and your thoughts. I have been following your thread and have appreciated the insight into your thinking and planning.

[Whosit]

De-lurking for a moment due to curiosity.

You have considered building a granary in several cities (Imperial Center, Kuat, maybe more), but seem to be favoring more troops instead. Obviously your need for units is pressing, but your expansive trait gives you cheap granaries. This is a big growth booster and is my favorite aspect of being expansive.

Maybe you do need the workers and troops first, but whipping your capital without a cheap granary first? Ouch.

Anyway, thanks for posting the pictures and your thoughts. I have been following your thread and have appreciated the insight into your thinking and planning.

Hey, thanks for chipping in! It's always fun to draw more of you out of the woodworks. Er, that's not as bad as it sounds!

Anyway, I have considered the issue you've brought up, and while I certainly haven't made the choice others might make, here's why I've done what I have done.

Short term, I need the troops more than a few population points. A Granary, even my cheap ones, can delay my plans several turns. Regarding Imperial Center, it's already at about the size that I want, so I don't feel that it's urgent for me to build a Granary. Carida just won't grow that big right now, anyway. I certainly plan to put a Granary in both cities before more growth/whipping.

I'm putting Granaries in my newest cities to try and help them get up to speed with my current ones. Hence why I'm willing to delay troops in Kuat by a substantial amount of time, hoping for greater returns down the road. But with Imperial Center, I don't think the immediate benefits outweigh the costs of the Granary. Maybe if I had prioritized Pottery earlier . . . .

I had considered whipping the Worker into a Granary, but I think I need the Workers out there more than I need the Granary. Heck, I almost feel that 5 Workers for 4 cities isn't enough! But I definitely want to stay on top of the Worker game, because falling behind there can really hurt.

Sooo, yeah. A bit more long-winded than I intended, but that's the gist of it. I think I will still skip the Granary in Imperial Center, but I think I still have time to sim things . . . . Maybe Worker > Worker > Granary > Troops is worth considering. But, since I'm basically in "I have enough on my hands right now" mode, I'm favoring soldiers. Imperial Center is currently at size 4, and it only needs to grow to size 5 to get what is effectively max available hammers. Hence, again, skipping the Granary for now. Perhaps once the war starts, I can consider whipping a Praetorian into a Granary? Might be worth considering. Dunno.

[Whosit]

I hope you like text.

Here's a longish e-mail I sent to the Ottomans. I always feel nervous when I discuss the Koreans with them. I don't really expect them to be double-dealing, but I try not to be so naive as to assume that they won't. On the other hand, I don't see much point in pretending that I want to be the Korean's best friend.

Dear Athlete and Kalin,

I hope the delay in communication hasn't caused any alarm. I have been occupied by many things these last few days, and I was not under the impression that you were expecting a hasty response to your last message. That said, I am writing both to respond to some of the items from the last message and simply to keep communications open. I am sure that we will always have business to discuss, but sometimes I have difficulty thinking of things to say if nothing seems pressing.

I am still gathering information on the lay of the lands and I am hope that in the near future I can afford to send out military units strong enough to survive Barbarian attacks. In any case, I am beginning to believe that naval power will not be and insignificant factor in this world. There is an ocean surrounding the main landmass (with islands beyond that which I have not yet been able to explore) and a landmass in the center of the inland sea. I would very much like to explore that central landmass. I suspect, and hope, that it contains valuable resources not found elsewhere. Masonry and Writing are the next critical techs for me, but Sailing may be a wise choice before I head into Aesthetics because it will allow me to start scouting that region.

I feel that controlling the central sea could be important. Even if there are few resources on that island, strategic control of that region could be very valuable. I was wondering if you thought making a concerted effort to settle that region would be worthwhile. While it would divert resources from the effort to settle the mainland, I am trying to devise a low-cost, low-impact plan to settle the central island. Clearly, I do not want to jeopardize my chances of taking as much land as possible. In fact, I may have more to lose because I have more available land to fill. Either way, I figure that we would both benefit by trying to carve a section out for ourselves relatively early. My scouting has indicated that the central sea is rich in seafood. Perhaps a city settled in a food-rich location, with a work boat provided by an existing city, could whip out the soldiers, workers, and even other Settlers required for settling the rest of the island with the second city following the same plan. If that effort could be made to be self-sustaining, it would reduce the amount of resources the mainland must divert. Of course, this is all hypothetical right now. We would still require sailing and exploration of those lands.

Please share your thoughts on this scheme. I would welcome a second opinion on whether or not the costs outweigh the benefits.

I am also wondering what your impressions of the other civilizations are. I will share some of my thoughts.

Byzantium: I have not met them, but as I do not believe that they are long for this world, I don't plan to involve myself with them.

IKZ Interregnum: Aside from having a name that indicates anarchy, I have had fairly little contact with them. Actually, now that I check, I don't think that we've exchanged more than the casual greeting. I hope to stay on peaceful terms with them, but I half expect that our two empires may try to take a bite out of them at a later date.

Korea: Relations are still tense at best. I have not communicated with them since the incident. They have accelerated the production of their army, so they are probably expecting an attack. Whether Archers can stand up to Praetorians, I do not know. Regardless, I trust that you will not communicate that piece of information to them.

Holy Roman Empire: I am hoping to befriend them. There is a chance that they will be my future neighbors, so I might as well get an early start. I hope that you will play nice with them, as well.

India: Communication with them has been friendly. Considering who is leading India, I imagine that they are the favorites for this game, but who knows. I would rather be on their good side than their bad by default.

Greece: I haven't found their homeland, I recall have fairly neutral dealings with them.

Romali: Made some friendly communications with them. Nothing extensive.

Overall, fairly neutral with most other civilizations. I have gotten the impression that many are having border issues with their neighbors. Aside from my dealings with you, the Ottomans/Rebel Alliance, there have not been any overt efforts to make long-term partnerships yet. I imagine that most are simply concerned with expansion at this point. And with tech trading disabled, I wonder if there is slightly less incentive for cooperation (I do not know how many others have come up with your interesting proposal on tech paths, or if you have shared the idea with others).

Hopefully between the two of us we can get a good bead on our other opponents. The Interregnum has been consistently lagging in score, so I wonder if that is an indication of their skill or not. The Indians have remained score leaders, or at least very high. The Empire is currently enjoying a top position, and hopefully I can make that last.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

I did get a brief message acknowledging receipt of the message, though it sounds like the two of them will discuss things before getting back to me in detail. I suppose the one upside of playing on my own is that I don't need to consult with anyone. That's the downside, too. LiPing should be coming back by the end of the month, I think. I hope so. If nothing else, she can do the number-crunching for me, since I've been getting sloppy there. Of course, then I could no longer make unilateral decisions. At least, not legitimately.

Also got this from the HRE:

Dear Whosit,

Sorry for the 2-day delay in responding. Things have been extremely busy.

Thank you for informing us on scouting whereabouts, we appreciate it.

We will definitely need future allies for our empire. Right now we ran into a minor dispute with our neighbor the Romalinese about city placement. Hopefully things will be resolved soon, but you never know what will happen.

I'm hoping that our two nations can eventually develop into a full alliance. We're not at that step yet, of course, but it would be great to have that.

If you don't mind telling us, what is your current research path or goals? Right now we are busy researching to get Confucianism from Code of Laws.

Sincerely,

DMOC for the DMOC/

And my response:

Dear DMOC and Nakor,

Do not worry about the delay. I understand that there are many things to attend to when running an empire.

I hope that the dispute with the Romalinese is not major, though I have gotten the impression that many are feeling quite crowded here. The Indians are north of the Romali, so I wonder if they are feeling pressure on that front. Either way, I hope you come to a favorable resolution.

You are correct to say that it is too early to take major steps towards alliance, but I would very much like to keep it in mind. I also thank you for being so forthcoming with your research plans. I can assure you that the Empire will not challenge you for Confucianism. If you earn it, we may be interested to have Confucianism spread to Imperial lands. Right now, we are thinking about pursuing the higher branch of the technology tree, but considering that we have not yet developed Writing, that plan many change.

I hope to stay in touch with the Holy Roman Empire.
- Hide quoted text -


Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

I should probably take more time composing my letters. Because I tend to respond instantly, I probably rush them and I may end up saying things that I'd rather not. I should practice patience . . . even though it is not the way of the Dark Side. Heh.

Anyway, I'll take their words at face value for the moment. I suppose it's good to know that they're having some trouble with the Romali; at least that gives me a third-party to "team" with them against. I should probably try to find out what they think about the Koreans sooner or later. If I do manage to take out the Koreans, I don't want the HRE feeling too nervous.

I should probably write back to the Inca and the Romali soon. It's been a week since I've greeted the Inca! Trying to keep up with everyone is going to be a hassle, heh.

[Whosit]

@haphazard1: You know, I gave it a shot, and I think that slow-building a Granary in Imperial Center after Worker 2 won't appreciably slow troop production. In fact, it may work out better since the city will grow into the lake tiles a bit faster, and even that 2 commerce can make a difference at this point. I think I'll do that! Thanks for the suggestion.

The Granary will also be helpful if I have to emergency whip something in I.C. So, yeah, looks like it's a good move, after all!

[MWIN]

We want war dammit, no more buildings:duel:

Just kidding, do what you think is best for your civ...