The Lurker Thread [Insert Title Here]

[MJW (ya that one)]

Diplomacy in Civ5 has the same drawbacks as in Civ4. Someone's going to be able to put in more effort than anyone else, like the runaway. And the runaway is perfectly capable of divide and conquering his opponents. I'm a runaway in a GMR game right now, and even if I don't trust the NAPs, I can gauge my opponent's intentions and cut deals with everyone.

But diplomacy makes it much easier to stop the runaway. For proof, http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F2006M/Burton...powers.htm. France is the best country in diplomacy and the more diplomacy you allow the worst it does. I also remember Bob said that in only one non-diplomacy game did they stop the runaway and in that game the runaway was really asking for it.

[Azza]

By rights Azza should have had a spy in the tech leader's capital, and gone into freakout mode over a wave of approaching artillery.

Had a spy in Meiz's capital, had to hope that he was attacking Jkaen which would give me time to get GWBs because I had nothing that could defend remotely well against artillery.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

The thing I've noticed about Civ5's military breakpoints, is that #1 can often safely attack #2, instead of safely attacking #3 and so on. Hitting a key military tech is a massive gamechanger, especially while you were balls deep in someone else.

Another thing I've noted is that unlike Civ4, land has much less power. You conquered a ton of territory but it was never going to be as good as well grown cities, meaning it was never going to let you catch up to someone who'd been simcitying away in peace. So the only reason to attack someone is to either grab a critical piece of land early on, or breathing room for you to peacefully settle, or to simply knock out your strongest rival.

Meiz ignored Jkaen because he was more or less irrelevant, and had nothing that could threaten Poland.

[Jowy]

I hope the lurkers enjoyed the game Maybe we got one or two new Civ5 players out of this, even if the game itself wasn't the closest or most action filled.

[Rowain]

But diplomacy makes it much easier to stop the runaway.

Yeah right Best example pitboss 2 . The CoW did really stop the runaway there .

Azza might have been able (with help from Jkaen) to slow/stop Meiz but only for the prize that Austria would become the new runaway.

[Jowy]

PB2 dogpile didn't work because of the skill differences and because one of the two major parties in that bailed out.

[Rowain]

PB2 dogpile didn't work because of the skill differences and because one of the two major parties in that bailed out.

The skill doesn't matter if 4 or 5 attack 1. The second part is the reason why dogpiles fail. There will always be parties that really profit and some that really don't. For the later leaving the dogpile is the right choice.

What would have stopped you from taking over one or other Azza-city while his army is deep in Meiz' territory? Or stopped you from growing tall and teching away while leaving Azza and Jkaen the costs of war?

[Jowy]

PB2 dogpile didn't work because of the skill differences and because one of the two major parties in that bailed out.

The skill doesn't matter if 4 or 5 attack 1. The second part is the reason why dogpiles fail. There will always be parties that really profit and some that really don't. For the later leaving the dogpile is the right choice.

What would have stopped you from taking over one or other Azza-city while his army is deep in Meiz' territory? Or stopped you from growing tall and teching away while leaving Azza and Jkaen the costs of war?

If it was diplo? Because Jkaen and Azza would tell me that I need to contribute or they'll let Meiz win. Or more likely, I would be the one who was making the alliance happen in the first place, and I'd be attacking Meiz with them from the beginning.

And lol, skill matters. Don't be silly. If it was 5 Spullla's attacking 1 Jowy (the one from 3 years ago who hadn't beaten Monarch!), you know I would have been dead and buried.

[Rowain]

And lol, skill matters. Don't be silly. If it was 5 Spullla's attacking 1 Jowy (the one from 3 years ago who hadn't beaten Monarch!), you know I would have been dead and buried.

Yes Speaker/Sulla defended great and used their skill really well (and I don't think there were many players who could have defended that well at that time) but their skill aside they had no real chance to win. Had the alliance really worked together they would have killed them. But so they sent units too late, too few, didn't coordinate, made separate peace-treaties and left one member (you) hanging as low fruit for Speaker/Sulla to take whenever they liked.

If it was diplo? Because Jkaen and Azza would tell me that I need to contribute or they'll let Meiz win. Or more likely, I would be the one who was making the alliance happen in the first place, and I'd be attacking Meiz with them from the beginning.

There is nothing to stop you from backstabbing your "Allies" and sail to a win. There is nothing that stops you or Jkaen from making peace with Meiz and go take Azzas cities or simle profit from the ongoing war especially once Meiz has lost 1 or 2 cities.
In any dogpile you will have members that will profit far greater than the others.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

A better example of a dogpiled that worked: the recent ISDG. We fucked up our diplomacy, sprinted ahead of the pack, ran out of breath, and got dragged down.

The difference between Civ4 and Civ5 dogpiles is that the latter tends to net you fewer gains. Land just isn't as valuable as it once was.