The Lurker Thread [Insert Title Here]

[Jowy]

There is nothing to stop you from backstabbing your "Allies" and sail to a win. There is nothing that stops you or Jkaen from making peace with Meiz and go take Azzas cities or simle profit from the ongoing war especially once Meiz has lost 1 or 2 cities.
In any dogpile you will have members that will profit far greater than the others.

You can't not do something just because there's a chance that it won't work out for you. You WILL lose the game if you don't deal with the runaway. If you do deal with the runaway, yeah you can still lose the game, but you have a shot at winning it as well.

EDIT: And as a personal note, it's more FUN and ENTERTAINING if you take risks and go for the dogpiles, instead of waiting 50-100 turns until the runaway has ran far enough that everyone will concede.

[Rowain]

You can't not do something just because there's a chance that it won't work out for you. You WILL lose the game if you don't deal with the runaway. If you do deal with the runaway, yeah you can still lose the game, but you have a shot at winning it as well.

EDIT: And as a personal note, it's more FUN and ENTERTAINING if you take risks and go for the dogpiles, instead of waiting 50-100 turns until the runaway has ran far enough that everyone will concede.

Then why didn't you declare on Meiz but on Azza instead?

[Jowy]

You can't not do something just because there's a chance that it won't work out for you. You WILL lose the game if you don't deal with the runaway. If you do deal with the runaway, yeah you can still lose the game, but you have a shot at winning it as well.

EDIT: And as a personal note, it's more FUN and ENTERTAINING if you take risks and go for the dogpiles, instead of waiting 50-100 turns until the runaway has ran far enough that everyone will concede.

Then why didn't you declare on Meiz but on Azza instead?

I didn't start the war with Azza. He had a unit where I wanted to settle a city and refused to move it even after seeing the workers roading and my settler on the way. Then he refused every peace offer until the end of the game. I was planning the attack on Meiz even while in war against Azza, because I thought Azza would come to his senses. That is why I fell so easily. Could have gone for lower tree to have stronger land units against Azza, instead of having naval units against Meiz, and I could have focused 100% on unit production to get a stalemate against Azza.

[T-hawk]

Another thing I've noted is that unlike Civ4, land has much less power. You conquered a ton of territory but it was never going to be as good as well grown cities

Yes, I found this to be very true in my various SP games. Conquering anything just never helped my finish dates. The food costs are so brutal that there isn't time to regrow a conquered city to substantial size before the game ends. A captured Civ 4 city can whip out infrastructure quickly using the low end of food costs, or even just ignore it and contribute a few more units to the stack. A captured Civ 5 city needs infrastructure (happiness/courthouse) just to survive, which takes forever.

[Rowain]

I didn't start the war with Azza. He had a unit where I wanted to settle a city and refused to move it even after seeing the workers roading and my settler on the way. Then he refused every peace offer until the end of the game.

Maybe I misread something in the reports but AFAIK you declared war on Azza and you refused his peaceoffer for a resource. That he later after he kicked your a** had little interest in your cheap offers is natural.

BTW I doubt it would have mattered anyway as Meiz had already a considerable techlead when the war between you and Azza started.

[Jowy]

I didn't start the war with Azza. He had a unit where I wanted to settle a city and refused to move it even after seeing the workers roading and my settler on the way. Then he refused every peace offer until the end of the game.

Maybe I misread something in the reports but AFAIK you declared war on Azza and you refused his peaceoffer for a resource. That he later after he kicked your a** had little interest in your cheap offers is natural.

BTW I doubt it would have mattered anyway as Meiz had already a considerable techlead when the war between you and Azza started.

Wow dude just read. I declared war on him, he started the war. Just like if someone brings a stack to your border, if you declare on them before they declare on you, they still started the war. And paying tributes to people for no reason is stupid. You wouldn't pay me shit if I asked for free stuff, just like I wouldn't pay anyone else. I had the military edge on him and offered white peace, that would be acceptable to any player who wants to win the game. Even if that player DID want to kill me, they'd still take the offer because they had zero military at the time and would need 30 turns to build up for war. My mistake this game was going for the win after Azza refused peace, I should have just gave up on the win there and fought with Azza.

[Azza]

You aggressively settled on the border of someone about to get Chu Ko Nus. Your choice led to the war, I wouldn't have attacked if unprovoked.

Also, I'm pretty confident that the only thing that would've changed had you gone into full on war mode was that it'd take me a little longer for my CKNs to tear you to shreds. It's an extremely powerful UU that you simply shouldn't allow yourself to be caught fighting against in their prime, let alone starting a war against the person about to get them.

[Jowy]

You are really easy to provoke if it pissed you off that much that I got a spot that you had 90 turns to settle on Quick and didn't :P

TBH not moving that unit from my way was a much bigger provocation. Of course I was trying to win so I didn't start an invasion over it.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Especially in Civ5 with 3-distance city radii and one-unit luxury resources, settling in someone else's "sphere of influence" is tantamount to a declaration of war. Jowy, you had to understand that the mountain/ivory location was crucial to Azza's interests, and only by accommodating those interests could you even attempt to organise an alliances against Meiz.

Azza did drop the ball by not settling it earlier. I like having my sphere of influence filled up and fortified quickly to dissuade any greedy eyes from my neighbours.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Rowain, only in a single game without diplo was the leader stopped and he was really asking for it. It's hard to get a dogpill going for reasons you outlined but not impossible.

This game. Meiz=Penance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWa0bplA1p0