[Spoilers] Old Human Tourist: Empress of Azteca

[Fintourist]

Good news that Azza and Mardoc are fighting! I hope Mardoc kept the city, as that could become Azza's focus, whereas if he burnt it then their borders are going to take a little longer to clash again...

Although that's such a nice land over there si I really wonder if that will be settled peacefully if the city was razed.

On the sandbox...

Nice sim and illustration!

- Yeah, I think I would like to switch the order of 9 & 11. Mostly because we really need intercontinental trade routes and Alphabet is still far away. Getting the stone city earlier up means that we get to hop earlier onto that island and get 2 commerce trade routes. Whether Azza is more likely to steal 9 or 11 from us I'm not so sure, but now I'm hoping that thanks to Mardoc he will be busy elsewhere. I also think that F can use some quality time with the corn, before we settle your 9 and it steals the resource.
- Looking at your sim I confirm that I like getting Sailing before Commerce (I'm imaging all our core cities one size bigger and working an extra cottage)
- I think I like your "10" (at least a lot more than 3S1W of capital), I thought about settling the very east 3E1N of your 10 so that we would get fish earlier inside our borders, but I guess "10" is a decent stepping stone for it (+benefits that we listed earlier) even though it isn't really a quality city.
- Yeah, I agree with your thinking re city specialization. 8 could be a really nice production site although as a FIN I'm not sure I can resist the urge of cottaging almost every single grass tile that I see at this point. D could be kind of a hybrid though and our capital can get quite a decent amount of production together, which should help later when we turn it into a Bureacademy-Oxford-Wall Street monster (unless we conquer a nice holy city with shrine of course)

[Old Harry]

Some notes from going through your save stack in more detail:

- Thinking about it a bit more Daisy is probably better as a pure hammer city long term - B and G can work the cottages eventually while D has four mines to work, so I wouldn't build a Library. Once it has the barracks then I'd go for Workers, Axes and Spears.

- Is it worth running 20% research on sailing t73 so that we get it eot75 instead of 76? One extra chance for a free religion spread...

- I thought about suggesting a mine for G before the cottage, but actually it's not needed until we start Moai there and after building it that forest can get chopped into the wonder too. So it can wait until we're close to Masonry. We could also put hammers into units to whip overflow into Moai .

- The delayed work boat in Englebert is a nice touch, and the 4-2 whip for the lighthouse works really well. But I think we're a work boat short for G when the borders pop - that would allow Daisy to have the pigs back - perhaps the WB could get built instead of the Library in Butterscotch ?

- t81 you've moved two workers to the forest at I for the WB chop - is that to get the city to grow a turn earlier? You could move one to the forest a turn earlier and just use the other to build the road on the stone, but the tundra means the chop takes four turns, so your way may be better...

I really like the way everything else is working out . Being hyper-critical I'd like to see more cottages south and east of Alfie so that Butterscotch can constantly work the shared ones and we get Alfie to max commerce sooner. If (just imagine) we capture city with a shrine and put Wall st in there what would be our second national wonder in the capital after Oxford? National Epic? Ironworks? Nothing?

[Fintourist]

- Thinking about it a bit more Daisy is probably better as a pure hammer city long term - B and G can work the cottages eventually while D has four mines to work, so I wouldn't build a Library. Once it has the barracks then I'd go for Workers, Axes and Spears.

Fair enough! I think I wasn't that set on library myself either, 2x axes and 1x settler first anyways(?) and then we decide what we really need.

- Is it worth running 20% research on sailing t73 so that we get it eot75 instead of 76? One extra chance for a free religion spread...

I was actually considering delaying Sailing for a turn or two just to keep upgrade money at hand. Religion spread chance and seeing resources of people sounds interesting too.. I think I'm fine with both approaches though, would you like 20 % slider next turn?

- I thought about suggesting a mine for G before the cottage, but actually it's not needed until we start Moai there and after building it that forest can get chopped into the wonder too. So it can wait until we're close to Masonry. We could also put hammers into units to whip overflow into Moai .

Ha! Actually I think we do want that mine over there asap! Perhaps you noticed that when G & E pop borders we have 2 work boats ready to hook whales + fish. I think we want to have three available so that we can hook both fish tiles immediately and that requires a bit more hammers out of G and thus a grass mine to work. (and we double-whip lighthouse there a bit later)

- The delayed work boat in Englebert is a nice touch, and the 4-2 whip for the lighthouse works really well. But I think we're a work boat short for G when the borders pop - that would allow Daisy to have the pigs back - perhaps the WB could get built instead of the Library in Butterscotch ?

Ha! (vol.2) Check the above answer I do like my libraries...

- t81 you've moved two workers to the forest at I for the WB chop - is that to get the city to grow a turn earlier? You could move one to the forest a turn earlier and just use the other to build the road on the stone, but the tundra means the chop takes four turns, so your way may be better...

I haven't really thought about that too carefully, I just wanted the WB out ASAP in the sim.. I like your thinking here, putting 2 workers onto forest of course wastes a worker turn and leads to simultaneous chops afterwards, which is a mild annoyance, so I try to come up with something better.

Being hyper-critical I'd like to see more cottages south and east of Alfie so that Butterscotch can constantly work the shared ones and we get Alfie to max commerce sooner.

Agree completely. It just has been a bit difficult to organize our worker force over there and get other important tasks done, so cottages have been built in the north instead. (excuses, excuses!) But as said, I totally agree and let's try to change this as soon as possible. Location of city #10 thankfully helps in this aspect.

If (just imagine) we capture city with a shrine and put Wall st in there what would be our second national wonder in the capital after Oxford? National Epic? Ironworks? Nothing?

Good question. I don't really have answer here though. I'm hoping we get better candidates for NE and Ironworks, but we have to see.. I'm speculating with some kind of nice 3x food ice city in the south that could be our Great Person pump. (I don't have a clear candidate yet in mind though)

[Old Harry]

I just had a quick look in-game, Azza's axe is next to our scout .

Barry didn't put any EPs on us - if that continues we'll have his graphs t87, but I'd be tempted to spend all of our EPs on him - gets graphs quicker and perhaps encourages Azza to spend all his on Brickadoc?

And what's going on with Krovice? They're CRE/FIN and they're bumping along the bottom of the scoreboard - is it an Oracle play or build up for conquest?

I was actually considering delaying Sailing for a turn or two just to keep upgrade money at hand. Religion spread chance and seeing resources of people sounds interesting too.. I think I'm fine with both approaches though, would you like 20 % slider next turn?

If there is no power spike from Azza I would.

- t81 you've moved two workers to the forest at I for the WB chop - is that to get the city to grow a turn earlier? You could move one to the forest a turn earlier and just use the other to build the road on the stone, but the tundra means the chop takes four turns, so your way may be better...

I haven't really thought about that too carefully, I just wanted the WB out ASAP in the sim.. I like your thinking here, putting 2 workers onto forest of course wastes a worker turn and leads to simultaneous chops afterwards, which is a mild annoyance, so I try to come up with something better.

I think your way the city grows a turn sooner, my way it gets the second chop (Granary, Monument, Barracks or Lighthouse?) two or three turns faster.

If (just imagine) we capture city with a shrine and put Wall st in there what would be our second national wonder in the capital after Oxford? National Epic? Ironworks? Nothing?

Good question. I don't really have answer here though. I'm hoping we get better candidates for NE and Ironworks, but we have to see.. I'm speculating with some kind of nice 3x food ice city in the south that could be our Great Person pump. (I don't have a clear candidate yet in mind though)

That would be good, although such a hypothetical city could make a good Globe draft camp too. (Actually, I don't see Nationalism being better than Bureau what with the mod and how good I expect our capital to get except maybe for very short golden age blasts, so National Epic should get first dibs...)

[Fintourist]

I just had a quick look in-game, Azza's axe is next to our scout .

No worries, we have the first move next turn!

Barry didn't put any EPs on us - if that continues we'll have his graphs t87, but I'd be tempted to spend all of our EPs on him - gets graphs quicker and perhaps encourages Azza to spend all his on Brickadoc?

If you have energy, feel free to change that!

And what's going on with Krovice? They're CRE/FIN and they're bumping along the bottom of the scoreboard - is it an Oracle play or build up for conquest?

Score is so misleading... I've seen couple of novice openings and they typically start slow and explode at some point. ("monster city or two with granaries followed by quick horizontal expansion when ready" or "fast horizontal expansion to the limits of economy followed by vertical growth everywhere") I'm sure their position improves scorewise eventually if they haven't gotten into an early conflict, but sure, if they are clearly behind us in score still in 20 turns that would be a good sign..

I think I'm fine with both approaches though, would you like 20 % slider next turn?

If there is no power spike from Azza I would.

Agreed then!

Re stone city:
I think your way the city grows a turn sooner, my way it gets the second chop (Granary, Monument, Barracks or Lighthouse?) two or three turns faster.

I promise to test whether that earlier second chop brings tangible benefits!

That would be good, although such a hypothetical city could make a good Globe draft camp too. (Actually, I don't see Nationalism being better than Bureau what with the mod and how good I expect our capital to get except maybe for very short golden age blasts, so National Epic should get first dibs...)

Agreed. I already miss SPI...

[Fintourist]

Turn 73

Interesting stuff...




1. Oracle finally fell, based on score change it seems to be dtay. He is surely having a nice start, again, I hope he did not get anything too amazing with the wonder
2. I think those dates suggest that CoL/Confucianism fell at the same time with the Oracle by someone else and was not necessirarily taken by dtay.
3. Cyneheard settled a city and his borders are visible in the NW corner.



It seems Barry Lyndon lost a city to pindicator. Could be Cheater Hater, but based on their map positions it would be a bit crazy.




We made contact with Cheater Hater and are set to found our 8th city next turn. It seem Cheater Hater has been expanding well, he is already at 7 cities.

[Old Harry]

I think you're right that dtay got Oracle, but he wouldn't have got the tech until he logged in so either someone else got CoL or he researched it this turn to allow him to Oracle Civil Service . With EXP/PRO Mao he should be getting a quick start. Lets hope his economy crashes hard.

Cheater Hater is EXP/IND, so should be gimping himself with wonder builds rather than expanding so quickly. I'm not happy with that... Looks like he's learned some lessons from PBEM58 :/

If Pindicator is on that northern continent I'm less keen on a beach-head there... Although I'd still be happy to accept the Hindu holy city.

[Fintourist]

Turn 74

I played this turn already in the morning, but here is quick recap:




1. Azza and Mardoc signed peace.. Well, hopefully there will at least be enormous border tensions in the future. I wonder why though? Did Mardoc come in with such a force that Azza was happy to have peace? Did Azza just think that I don't care and signed? Is Azza trying to lure Mardoc into believing he won't revenge? Does Azza have settlers ready and he will pink dot Mardoc hard using enforced peace? I guess this guessing does not make too much sense..

2. We settled Hazelnut, our 8th city. I wonder how Cheater Hater sees the plant, hopefully he considers it acceptable and we will get a peaceful Eastern border and trade partner in the future

3. Note barb spear at the bottom of the pic --> Barbs have BW. Barb warrior closer to our border will be taken care by the axe that in the pic has not moved yet to capital.

4. Amusingly I have somehow managed to mess our sandbox re Englbert and city will grow already this turn and not next turn as I had planned. Consequence: Unimproved tile worked. Well I guess that's still a positive problem, no idea how did I managed to work grass forest instead of cows in the sandbox (which is what I believe what has happened)

[Fintourist]

Btw, note from the above pic that we have trade route icon with Cheater Hater (we can see his resources), pindicator and dtay. I guess that means that those guys have Sailing and are located at least somewhat close to us.

[Old Harry]

So Azza and Cynheard don't have Sailing? Maybe the marble island is available after all... (Oh okay, I'm just kidding.) I do think that means Azza has made some progress down the religious line though - would make sense with Masonry to be heading towards Monotheism.

Also bad micro. Mustn't create bonus food from nowhere .

Between that spear, our scout and Azza's axe we should be able to fogbust the rest of our continent to make sure no Axes appear.