(July 4th, 2014, 04:30)Old Harry Wrote: I was wondering if settling NE or NW of deer for 1st-ring silk would be better, but if you think you can pop the borders before Calendar comes in then the extra food from lighthouse lakes is far preferable.
Possibly we don't get the pop before Calendar, but I think we should improve spices and sugar first, which means that we have a little bit more time before our cities can actually use the silk happiness.
Quote:blue get us an extra city on FIN coast, but need one border pop to get one city going.
I think I like blue It has the downside that the inland city does not get sheep in the first ring, but I think we can live with that.. The most SE red dot might be contested by Cheater Hater if those are his horses, but we need to see. I check next time when I'm on whether those are improved.
Quote:Also what order do we go - the best city (five lighthouse lakes ) is quite a stretch and needs a huge road...
That's true, but I think we want to go for it quickly.. Now that CH is busy it might not be that crucial, but I kind of want to seal this continent for us. I've actually planned the rough micro roughly around planting the city at around T100. It works decently with the rotation where our workers come down and improve plains cows and then horses for Hazelnut.
So that would be our 15th overall city, our 16th city could go onto island depending what we find, otherwise it could be "c?" E of crabs. It's not really a quality city, but we should be able to improve those crabs immediately with a WB so that the city gets a decent start.
Quote:I had another rough play through from t89-96 last night going Currency->Calendar to get our happy cap up ASAP and felt like we were short on workers (likely due to a lack of planning) so perhaps CoL first is better?
Yeah, when Calendar comes in we immediately have a lot to do.. We have couple of new workers under production and I think we should be able to manage the situation in an acceptable way... but yeah, it needs more planning and we surely can't afford to waste worker turns. I don't have a strong opinion re CoL vs. Calendar yet, I haven't really simmed far enough yet..
Quote:I tried whipping workers into Moai but did the first two turns before stone was hooked .
Yeah, let's do that, but with improved stone
Quote:More general observations - I think Englebert is a good candidate to work specialists, while Butterscotch has a lot of cottages we want to grow and can build workers out of food to slow growth before we get Calendar. Building our workers in our northern food-heavy cities and gradually percolating them south to develop the new cities seems sensible, as there are a few tiles in-between that still need developing. I'm keen to cottage the grass hills around Alfie...
All good points, "E" will get a library soonish and it can start working towards a scientist. I promise you a grass hill cottage at Alfie
Quote:Does anyone have marble that they would trade us for an MOM attempt?
I'll check! At this point our tech rate is already decent enough that there aren't surely that many opponents that can get Calendar before us, but if someone is putting down a real effort we are already too late. Anyways, there might be a chance to grab the wonder, but unfortunately we don't really have an easily reachable marble like Azza and Mardoc do.
I did not take the screenshot of event log, but it seems BGN bulbed Philosophy and founded Taoism (or he settled cities worth of 19 points). He is surely doing very well here
Domestic overview:
- Daisy whipped the settler for city 13
- Settling party is ready for founding our 11th city next turn
- Currency easily on schedule
- our 11th worker is born in Butterscotch
- Alfie starts the settler for city 14, to be whipped next turn
- We chopped a galley in Izzy. Next turn we load a settler and our Woody II Guerilla Scout into it. Island cities! Huts! Here we come!
- I'm pretty surprised that we haven't met more barbs during the recent turns (I should not say that loud I guess). Well, we should have enough swords and visibility to cover all the border areas.
Demos are ok/good, we have stagnated now quite a while at 10 cities so I'm looking forward to our next big step change as we finish Currency and settle the current wave of cities:
We got graphs on Mardoc so here are the relevant pics with short comments:
Mardoc is teching clearly faster than Azza. However, if one remembers that part of his GNP is holy city/Buddhism culture it does not look quite that amazing, but still pretty good
Hmm.. I guess this screenshot finally got me caught on using map hack (at least for me it looks pretty weird) Anyways, Mardoc's MFG is pretty low. Remember, we are running a cottage/coast-heavy economy and our own MFG is only average/slightly above average.
Food stat is where we are running away from our neighbors, neither Azza's or Mardoc's growth curve does not look too promising. They really need to settle more cities quickly.
Power looks fairly comfortable from our perspective. Azza and Mardoc are so even that it does not look too likely that one of them would currently have a real advantage if they would start fighting --> I guess we should not put too much hope on these guys destroying each other, just a bit
Btw, I wonder if we should offer OBs to pindicator next turn (or on T93). Has someone got exact wisdom what is required for getting trade routes? I think that we haven't fogged a tile inside pindicators culture, but we are only one tile short (I think we have unfogged a coast/ocean tile next to pindicators own coast/ocean tile at a former city of Barry). I studied the subject a bit when I played in PBEM45g, but this is really the border case where I'm not sure. With some luck pindicator has of course settled another city on the coast that is visible to us and this does not matter or the city that I'm referring has somehow gathered 10 culture together..
Here's some more map speculation: there is jungle on Cynheard and Pindicator's island, so I'd guess we've got polar regions and a tropical band or two. This could mean that Pindi has neighbours/trading partners to the north as well:
Or:
(apologies that these aren't fighting or square.)
On the demo screen the Exports-Imports is -15. So we're giving away five cities worth of trade (I think) meaning we're connected to 15 of Cynheard and CH's cities. Meaning with currency we'll be five trade routes short with 10 cities, seven short with 11, etc. With Pindicator the trade route icon is visible on the scoreboard but I just checked in worldbuilder and we need to have a route to his culture unfogged so I don't think we'll get them. When are those exploring boats appearing? Unfogging the route to Whosit is probably the best option...
I just noticed that Whosit is Viking. Normally I'd worry about neighboring them over the water, but his boats only start with Flanking rather than getting the extra move as standard so he needs Vassalage or Theocracy for that. Lets hope that Cheater Hater holds him off for a while anyway...
Actually I kinda lazy to do that
First about youe north neighbours.
I think that there are positioning in a triangle way pindicator being in the midlle. This will help to explain why Pindi attack Barry.
I also think the the whole map setup is 3 islands on top, five in the middle, 3 on the botton. This could be umbalanced I guess but I also remember than in teh signup thread there were some ideas of players more cramped but with better land. And more room for others but lees quality.
(July 6th, 2014, 15:19)Old Harry Wrote: Fintourist - did you forget to end turn this morning or is there something still to do?
Yes, there was a 2-hour sandboxing session that had to be done
First of all, thank you guys for the map speculation! I liked retep's triangle thinking, which would explain why pindicator has not settled the coast close to us, but I think it's also possible that he has been busy and Cyneheard-pindi-Barry were aligned in the same kind of way as our continent is (I'm happy to not remember pindicators misplaced turn report that well!). And yeah, this is certainly some kind of a continent map and eleven 3-player islands is a possibility although if I would have to guess, I would say that Commodore went with something a bit more interesting/complex. Anyways, I think that OH's 3-4-4 and retep's 3-5-3 continent placement are both realistic. Due to map dimension I don't believe that we can have more than 3 "rows" of continents.
(July 5th, 2014, 17:45)Old Harry Wrote: What's map hack?
If I've understood correctly using cheats that reveal the whole map has been a problem in some strategy games. And well, I just made a lame joke as the screenshot failed somehow..
Btw, retep's triangle screenshot made me think more about sending OBs to pindicator. That (most likely) former city of Barry that we have scouted could indeed have been his capital and thus Hindu holy city -> pindicator has captured it and the city has popped borders -> The tile N of whales will be inside of its culture -> we will get trade route commerce if we sign OBs..
So I went and offered OBs to pindicator and voilà:
We got trade routes (one turn too early, but still great..)! I don't know if my theory was correct or if the city has already popped its borders otherwise or something else enabled trade routes, but now we have them anyways. Cyneheard, Cheater Hater and Pindicator have 24 cities combines so we have now enough 3-commerce trade routes for 12 cities as we are getting Currency at the end of the turn.
We settled our 11th city, "Kirby", this turn:
Not having a WB ready or even on the way to Kirby is possibly my biggest micro mistake so far. Somehow I had the fish in the 2nd ring in our sandbox for a long time. Well anyways, Kirby gets to borrow wet corn and will complete a granary and a WB in quick fashion so the damage is not too big..
But this is a reason for
There must be Masonry or a big chunk of gold inside that hut! I'll pop it next turn with our 10 XP scout. The location of the hut is my first hypothesis for our 12th/13th city, but we need to see... I'm crossing my fingers that we find furs or silver..
Btw, note that Azza finally has tech on and will probably finish Mathematics EOT95.
And here are the current demos:
And here are the updated sandbox and a rough micro plan until T100. Comments in spoilers:
- There are some inaccuracies that I'm already aware of, but most of the flow is pretty okay
- I went with Masonry (EOT93) and Calendar (EOT98)
- We are getting our first Calendar resource improved on T100 (sugar) and spices will follow quickly afterwards, getting silk inside our borders will still take some time, but I think that's ok (in the sandbox I'm chopping on T97 one forest into granary, but now I'm thinking that those hammers should complete a monument even though I hate those things
- Note that I'm catching up the beaker difference that we have compared to actual game by working an imaginary incense town on T92..
- Now that we have trade routes with pindicator our sandbox does not have enough 3-commerce trade routes...
- We reach 200 units in food stat at the start of the turn 100 but unfortunately I went with the far-stretching city location on the east coast, which means that our 15th city will be founded on T101 (and not on T100 as I promised earlier! )
(July 5th, 2014, 17:45)Old Harry Wrote: When are those exploring boats appearing? Unfogging the route to Whosit is probably the best option...
Those things still take some time, but in the current micro we are building 2 WBs, one of them can go find Whosit and other one could head west via Cyneheard's coast.
Quote:I just noticed that Whosit is Viking. Normally I'd worry about neighboring them over the water, but his boats only start with Flanking rather than getting the extra move as standard so he needs Vassalage or Theocracy for that. Lets hope that Cheater Hater holds him off for a while anyway...
Yeah, Vikings are nowhere near as scary as in BTS or previous versions of the mod. Let's hope that Whosit stops gaining cities, but becomes strong enough that he won't be eaten by his other neighbors (and we will have all the time in the world to boat Cheater Hater).
(July 6th, 2014, 17:55)retep Wrote: What is next after currency?
Too lazy for checking micro spoilers..?
1-turning Masonry (EOT93) for stone and getting then Calendar (EOT98) for higher happy cap is my current hypothesis for our tech path. (unless you guys convince me of awesomeness of CoL or demand HBR/Construction)
It has the downside that the inland city does not get sheep in the first ring, but I think we can live with that.. The most SE red dot might be contested by Cheater Hater if those are his horses, but we need to see. I check next time when I'm on whether those are improved.
At this point our tech rate is already decent enough that there aren't surely that many opponents that can get Calendar before us, but if someone is putting down a real effort we are already too late. Anyways, there might be a chance to grab the wonder, but unfortunately we don't really have an easily reachable marble like Azza and Mardoc do.
.
(or he settled cities worth of 19 points). He is surely doing very well here 
I'll try to make my own graphic to explain why.
I don't know if my theory was correct or if the city has already popped its borders otherwise or something else enabled trade routes, but now we have them anyways. Cyneheard, Cheater Hater and Pindicator have 24 cities combines so we have now enough 3-commerce trade routes for 12 cities as we are getting Currency at the end of the turn.
)
