Joey/Parkin get up and slam

[GermanJoey]

I queued up a WB, but feel free to change it.

Uh, why? The plan was to build a Worker immediately after the Work Boat. No point delaying it, we'll have AH shortly...

Optimal build path for the first 16 turns:

T0: citizen on 1f/2h tile, build Work Boat
T5: borders expand, citizen on 3h tile
T7: finish Work Boat, citizen on flood plain tile, build Worker
T8: net Fish, citizen on Fish
T16: finish Worker, move to improve Sheep first

Agreed, that's what I've found too.

I meant that in response to "So first builds of WB -> Worker are a given" and to tech AH without getting the Ag Prereq. I was assuming we were agreeing to grow to size 2 first before starting the worker and didn't notice that your build order started a worker while still at size 1. I guess this explains why you were intent on the sheep first, because that didn't make sense to me otherwise.

Growing to size 2 first delays the worker by 2 turns (would have been 3 turns if the WB came out according to your plan), but grows the city to size 3 one turn sooner. There's also the additional point of commerce and production that we gain per turn by growing to size 2 so much sooner.

[Lord Parkin]

Okay, you didn't show me a sim for that so I'll take your word for it.

[GermanJoey]

Okay, you didn't show me a sim for that so I'll take your word for it.

The problem with continuing your original plan after my micro-screwup is that the stars no longer align like they did before wrt BW timing:

Here's your plan as you suggested, starting the worker on T8 as the WB moves to the fish and then improving the sheep immediately. The second worker is standing on the same tile as the scout, having just moved onto the forest.

Alternatively, improving the cow first accelerates the second worker by 2 turns and still leaves time for the pasture to finish for a 3T growth, but leaves them standing around doing nothing until then (or putting a turn into a mine I guess) because BW is slower. This option puts the most food in the bin @ T27 (note the SS above is T26) of all four options (counter-intuitive, but works out because the worker is done 2 turns sooner) but does delay BW by a turn, like the above, compared to the grow-first option.

Growing to size 2 first, sheep first:

Cow first:

In both cases, BW T28. In both cases, the final improvment needs a worker turn on the turn before BW comes in, when the worker should be moving to a forest. Not sure whether its better to complete the improvement first or get the chop done first. Out of the two options, I think the cow-first is better because it puts more food into the bin with less overflow.

[Lord Parkin]

Pretty sure my micro plan had us growing to size 3 before starting the second Worker, so something's not quite right in your implementation. I'll leave it up to you though, I don't have time to sim at the moment.

[GermanJoey]

Ok.

[GermanJoey]

We never talked about turn-by-turn micro when we did sims weeks ago, and so I'm going by what we agreed upon loosely (e.g. we want 2 workers early) based on the sims that I did. (If you go back and read your post on page 4 with all our PMs, there's nothing about growing to size 3 first at all, just that you disagreed with my plan to grow to 4 first before the settler.)

[Lord Parkin]

Sorry, I thought I'd sent through the details of my suggested plan ages ago, but I guess I didn't. My bad.

It's obsolete now anyway, since the plan has changed. But I suspect growing to size 3 to build Worker #2 is still worth testing. A while off yet, so plenty of time to sim that.

[GermanJoey]

Sure, I'll give it a shot. I have a little bit of time tonight; I'll test sheep-first and cow-first and see how we do.

[GermanJoey]

grow to size 2 -> worker, sheep first -> size 3 -> worker = 1 turn left on worker at T28, workers both move T29

grow to size 2 -> worker, cow first -> size 3 -> worker = worker done T28, one worker moves T28

size 1 worker, cow first -> size 3 -> worker = worker done T29, first worker ready to chop T28

[Lord Parkin]

Hmm, not sure why the flood plain is being worked in the second image... in any event, looks like there's not a lot of difference in it. Option 1 gets two chops on T32, option 2 gets one chop on T31 and the other on T32, and option 3 gets one chop on T30 and the other on T32. Option 3 seems best then.