Chatting it over with Fintourist we figured out:
- We can get two Knights and two HAs onto our southern Galleys on t127. They will unload 2SE of PMW on t128.
- two more knights will follow, boarding the Galley 1E of Izzy on t128.
- We can get nine HAs, two Chariots and two knights on the staging post N of Flossie on t127, these then take Dig Up on t128.
- We can put a Mace and two Axes N of Hello Joe on t128, a couple of follow-up Knights can help out on t129.
We could wait until t129 to attack to add a few more Knights, but given the lack of Azza's defences at the moment t128 with HAs seems like a good idea.
It does mean we need to get workers into place to complete the two roads by Cornelius (to let reinforcements arrive quickly) and road the tile SW of Flossie t128 and S of Flossie t129. Can you think of any other needed combat worker actions?
So all those HAs -> knights on the cities summary screen will be follow-up troops? That bodes well for meeting Azza's counter-attack I guess. Azza does look weak, so I guess go for it.
(August 29th, 2014, 17:08)Old Harry Wrote: It does mean we need to get workers into place to complete the two roads by Cornelius (to let reinforcements arrive quickly) and road the tile SW of Flossie t128 and S of Flossie t129. Can you think of any other needed combat worker actions?
Yeah, 4 workers at the northern staging tile (although only roading SW of Flossie is an absolute must?) and 2 workers ready to finish incompleted roads near Cornelius (again, the road NW of Cornelius is probably the more important one) should be enough.
We are completing the mace in Flossie eot127, but in case you want more 1-movers into staging tile roading the tile E-NE of Flossie could theoretically be useful. Probably no need though.
I don't think we need to rush a road between Izzy and PMW, but if we have spare workers we might start with that as well. We probably need to count on our main force and reinforcements via Hello Joe during the most critical turns.
Roading the tile SW of Butterscotch and SW & SW-W of Englbert would improve domestic logistics, but those aren't critical either..
(August 29th, 2014, 19:24)TheHumanHydra Wrote: So all those HAs -> knights on the cities summary screen will be follow-up troops? That bodes well for meeting Azza's counter-attack I guess. Azza does look weak, so I guess go for it.
Most of them will follow a turn behind, yes. 2 knights will be available immediately in the north and 2 knights will reach our southern navy in time. This is pretty much the exact amount we need in order to be successful if everything goes well and Azza does not add defenders. We probably need at least one knight for the top defender in Dig Up and another for the top defender in Azza's capital. In south we could imagine being successful with only 1 knight unless the defending spear murders it with a great roll.
(August 30th, 2014, 01:25)Old Harry Wrote: Question is: how many HAs do we want to upgrade? If Azza doesn't see many knights in the first wave he'll whip spears instead of elephants...
Related to above thinking. I think we would like to have at least 3 knights in our northern force so that we could spend 2 for Dig Up and still have one that is ready to hit Azza's capital. In south we should probably be ok.
2 knight upgrades equals one turn of teching so we don't want to do many upgrades. Engineering sounds very useful and we don't want to push that too far. So I think we do at least one upgrade, but maybe 2/3 is not a terrible idea so that we have some room for bad RNG / other surprises.
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If everything goes well we disconnect Azza's ivory already during the T129 so there should hopefully be no reason to even consider elephants..
Quote:Also: our three chariots are probably the best units for attacking all these axes. Why didn't we build more?
Well, that is really the only use that mass chariots will have during this whole game.. And also if Azza counterattacks with a decent stack and we prefer to hold ground inside a city or on a hill or forest those chariots would be absolutely useless while our HAs still get odds against axes.. So don't feel too bad about it!
Other stuff:
1. It hurts my soul when I see a spy specialist or a plains hill mine being worked instead of grass hamlet/village, but so be it! However, once we have finished this initial knight push let's keep building units in many places, but adopt a more growth-oriented tile allocation.
2. Ruff is probably located east of Krill/Novice. Culture vision thing shows that our scout will soon reveal tiles that have culture from both teams
3. Dtay created a 3-way split.. Not cool. I mean, getting the 2nd half is often very beneficial and it was surely nice for mack and pindicooter in PB13 when they attacked m_h/nakor and not having the 2nd half was PITA against suttree. However, deliberaly creating a 3-way split for tactical benefits is testing the limits of don't be a jerk rule. Oh well, I don't know the real reasons behind it so I guess it's better to just assume that it was somehow forced..
4. Once Lucky has finished a knight, let's get a longbow or something for our island. I don't want to lose cities for a wandering galley from Azza in the south
5. I think we also want a lbow in Hazelnut soon. I would imagine that CH is currently only thinking about his eastern front and Whosit sandwich, but maybe it would still be wise to add a stronger defender? Or at least a boat that gives us better vision? Well, we could keep gambling too..
6. I left a sign reg where our scouting chariot should move next turn. I strongly prefer playing it safe with it and not trying to reach the staging tile via western route. There is a fair chance that Azza has settled "Aurora Borealis" on the stone and our chariot won't reach the staging tile in time if we go through the city. Now that I'm thinking more about it I would put my money on the city being on stone. I think I noticed the city being settled and stone hooked pretty much simultaneously.
7. Azza's Zzzap now has granary
I'm sure I had couple of additional topics in mind as well, but can't recall them.. I'll spam them here or in our chat later if anything relevant occurs..
I'd give yourselves some cushion room for bad rolls/other stuff as Fin said and upgrade a couple more than you think you'll need. This attack going off without a hitch will be worth more than a turn or two's tech.
(August 30th, 2014, 06:47)TheHumanHydra Wrote: I'd give yourselves some cushion room for bad rolls/other stuff as Fin said and upgrade a couple more than you think you'll need. This attack going off without a hitch will be worth more than a turn or two's tech.
Yeah, just to clarify: Engineering will also be a valuable asset when it comes to managing this attack without a hitch. So it's not really that much about lost beakers, but couple of extra knights vs. extra movement for our army a bit earlier. Hmmm..
Any bets how Azza is going to react if our alpha strike succeeds?
1. Turtle in his remaining empire
2. Try to recapture his capital and march towards our main army
3. Try to recapture Prove Me Wrong in the south where we don't have large amount of troops at the beginning
4. Split his forces and try to recapture everything
5. Something else? Send everything towards Mardoc, pillage every improvement, whip all cities down to size 1, etc..
(August 30th, 2014, 01:25)Old Harry Wrote: Question is: how many HAs do we want to upgrade? If Azza doesn't see many knights in the first wave he'll whip spears instead of elephants...
Related to above thinking. I think we would like to have at least 3 knights in our northern force so that we could spend 2 for Dig Up and still have one that is ready to hit Azza's capital. In south we should probably be ok.
2 knight upgrades equals one turn of teching so we don't want to do many upgrades. Engineering sounds very useful and we don't want to push that too far. So I think we do at least one upgrade, but maybe 2/3 is not a terrible idea so that we have some room for bad RNG / other surprises.
If Dig Up just has an axe and a spear then a knight and a chariot should do the trick. If the capital produces a spear in the next three turns then a Knight, Chariot and HA will all get odds. Then we have eight spare HAs to tidy up any problems. And then we have ten more knights on their way to join the fun. I could be convinced to upgrade one just to be sure of taking the capital on the second turn, but I doubt we'll need more than that.
(August 30th, 2014, 06:05)Fintourist Wrote: Other stuff:
1. It hurts my soul when I see a spy specialist or a plains hill mine being worked instead of grass hamlet/village, but so be it! However, once we have finished this initial knight push let's keep building units in many places, but adopt a more growth-oriented tile allocation.
Cornelius and Daisy can go back to max food next turn, Englebert and Gertie we'll just have to live with...
(August 30th, 2014, 06:05)Fintourist Wrote: 4. Once Lucky has finished a knight, let's get a longbow or something for our island. I don't want to lose cities for a wandering galley from Azza in the south
Does Azza have another coastal city other than Zzzap?
(August 30th, 2014, 06:05)Fintourist Wrote: 5. I think we also want a lbow in Hazelnut soon. I would imagine that CH is currently only thinking about his eastern front and Whosit sandwich, but maybe it would still be wise to add a stronger defender? Or at least a boat that gives us better vision? Well, we could keep gambling too..
Perhaps one more knight first?
(August 30th, 2014, 06:05)Fintourist Wrote: 6. I left a sign reg where our scouting chariot should move next turn. I strongly prefer playing it safe with it and not trying to reach the staging tile via western route. There is a fair chance that Azza has settled "Aurora Borealis" on the stone and our chariot won't reach the staging tile in time if we go through the city. Now that I'm thinking more about it I would put my money on the city being on stone. I think I noticed the city being settled and stone hooked pretty much simultaneously.
Sounds likely to me. We'll get sight over the lake and then can figure out what teleportation will do next turn.
(August 30th, 2014, 08:44)Fintourist Wrote: Any bets how Azza is going to react if our alpha strike succeeds?
1. Turtle in his remaining empire
2. Try to recapture his capital and march towards our main army
3. Try to recapture Prove Me Wrong in the south where we don't have large amount of troops at the beginning
4. Split his forces and try to recapture everything
5. Something else? Send everything towards Mardoc, pillage every improvement, whip all cities down to size 1, etc..
I'd like him to go for 2, 3 or 4. If we can hide our follow-up knights then perhaps that would happen. If we can't then it won't.
That looks so funny. I wonder if there is anything that might screw up the results of that test.. Because, if that is 100 % reliable, teleporting to staging tiled during the T128 is of course better (and cooler).
If the borders have popped we might still be able to attack the lonely axe in zzzap on t129, but let's see..
Well, that is really the only use that mass chariots will have during this whole game.. And also if Azza counterattacks with a decent stack and we prefer to hold ground inside a city or on a hill or forest those chariots would be absolutely useless while our HAs still get odds against axes.. So don't feel too bad about it!
Not cool. I mean, getting the 2nd half is often very beneficial and it was surely nice for mack and pindicooter in PB13 when they attacked m_h/nakor and not having the 2nd half was PITA against suttree. However, deliberaly creating a 3-way split for tactical benefits is testing the limits of don't be a jerk rule. Oh well, I don't know the real reasons behind it so I guess it's better to just assume that it was somehow forced..
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That looks so funny. I wonder if there is anything that might screw up the results of that test.. Because, if that is 100 % reliable, teleporting to staging tiled during the T128 is of course better (and cooler).
