[Spoilers] Old Human Tourist: Empress of Azteca

[Fintourist]

Yes, they can be doing a lot regarding this situation without me seeing, but maybe they aren't.. They are competent players and maybe they are making perfect decisions, or maybe some mistakes this time? They might be putting a huge effort or maybe they are just strolling casually and don't care too much.. I don't know, that's why I speculate I guess I did not manage to express my thoughts too good this time.

[Old Harry]

Suppose that Krovice are rational actors and competent players, who have valid reasons from their perspective for what they do and don't do. Including things that make it seem from your perspective as if they are doing nothing.

Rational? Krill? Come off it!

I think you've misread what Fintourist intended to say - we hope that Krovice will take advantage of dtay's stretch because this could be the only chance for anyone to do that. If they want to win they need to do something about their neighbour - if they just want to play their own little game that's up to them, but I'd be astonished if they don't want to win.

I think they're in a peace treaty with him at the moment though, so he's got another few turns of freedom to do what he wants to CH...

[Zed-F]

I don't think I misread, it's only that the tone came across as less hopeful/wishful and more complaining that said hopes don't appear to be coming to fruition as quickly as might be desired. Neither Krill nor Novice have a history of giving in easily. If you assume they are as competent as their reputation suggests, it follows that their plans will reflect their capabilities as they perceive the situation. Hoping they are in a position to be willing and able to wage a land war against a competent neighbour is one thing... complaining if they don't would be something else.

[Fintourist]

I don't think I misread, it's only that the tone came across as less hopeful/wishful and more complaining that said hopes don't appear to be coming to fruition as quickly as might be desired. Neither Krill nor Novice have a history of giving in easily. If you assume they are as competent as their reputation suggests, it follows that their plans will reflect their capabilities as they perceive the situation. Hoping they are in a position to be willing and able to wage a land war against a competent neighbour is one thing... complaining if they don't would be something else.

Yeah, you made your interpretation pretty clear.

Why would Krovice kingmake at the cost of their own game?

Because this came across as "Stop whining, idiot. You don't understand a single thing about the situation or civ 4 metagame."

8. Dtay is creating an enormous and pretty much indefensible border. Are Krill+Novice just going to sit there and watch dtay grow to 40 cities? Dtay is commiting a lot of troops for CH war very far away from his core so it's (or it would have been) definitely possible to at least force him to slow down his attack, cause some economic damage through threatening some border cities or even better, take couple of cities. Hmm.. I hope they are not checked out and actually have a plan to do at least something at some point.

If this is already too much complaining and annoying for you, then we are all lucky that OH is the one doing reporting here and my thoughts usually go into our gchat. I've typically seen our thread as the place where I'm allowed to post subjectively my thoughts and feelings about the game. when something good happens, and when things don't go the way I hope.

The above post was not meant as a though, I was mostly just thinking about the situation loud. However, I could very well about dtay getting lots of high quality land so easily. At least from here it looks like he is being pretty lucky over there. Of course, the thing is that we are being similarly lucky here with Azza+Mardoc, which reduces the need to be frustrated. I would imagine that there are at least couple of players out there, who have played their hands really well, but simply haven't had similar openings (at least so far) as we and dtay, and thus keeping up with us will be practically impossible, if everything keeps going well here. Sure, I believe that we and dtay have played our starts pretty well, but gaining so much land for so limited losses is hardly possible without help from some external factors.

[Old Harry]

Misreading the intention is different from misreading the post itself. I know that FT didn't intend to complain about Krovice there because it'll be very apparent when he does . Perhaps you've spotted something subtle in there that he and I missed which could be interpreted as a complaint?

Anyway, I'm aiming to play at about 8pm my time tonight. I assume those galleys are how dtay hit CH so hard and fast. I wouldn't put it past him to try and do the same to us given how weak our backlines are at present and how I was planning to do something similar to him .

[Zed-F]

Are Krill+Novice just going to sit there and watch dtay grow to 40 cities? Dtay is commiting a lot of troops for CH war very far away from his core so it's (or it would have been) definitely possible to at least force him to slow down his attack, cause some economic damage through threatening some border cities or even better, take couple of cities.

Since you asked, OH, this is the bit in question, looking particularly at the use of the quite stong word 'definitely.' Saying they definitely could have attacked or acted threateningly implies (a) that you know more about Krovice's situation than they do, and (b) that they ought to be willing to take the risk even if it doesn't result in a net gain for them. That, I don't now believe was the intent, but it's what triggered the initial response.

Regarding complaints, Fintourist, you are of course free to complain in your own thread as much as you like about whatever you like. I just find it easier to read complaints that seem justified than those that seem less justified. I accept that you were not intending to complain, so carry on. My apologies if my initial response seemed like an overreaction.

[Ceiliazul]

I think anguish over action/inaction in the fog is pretty standard for this point in the game... didn't read anything past that in Fin's post.

Love the reporting, keep it up.

[Old Harry]

Ah, that makes more sense now - I guess that is one interpretation, but trust me, when we want to complain about Krovice you'll see a lot more , , , , , , , , , , and smilies.

By the way: BGN is a total douche.

(Transparent attempt to try to catch up to Krovice's post count )

Ceil - how on earth are you managing to lurk and comment in every thread for this game? And if it's not a spoiler which threads should we be reading first afterwards?

[Fintourist]

Regarding complaints, Fintourist, you are of course free to complain in your own thread as much as you like about whatever you like. I just find it easier to read complaints that seem justified than those that seem less justified. I accept that you were not intending to complain, so carry on. My apologies if my initial response seemed like an overreaction.

Point taken.

As you notice I boil over pretty fast so I guess we are going to see a decent rant or two still during this game.. :P But obviously my complaints are always justified so there is no problem with it...

[Ceiliazul]

Im actually not reading them all. Im reading about five of them every time they get updated, but honestly its too much to really keep track of and provide feedback/encouragement in a non-spoiler way. If theres only a few, I can mentally screen who-said-what for spoilers. With this many I cant remember and so cant add much content.

But yours is one of the five and I hope you'll keep it up!