RP Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Darius I of the Holy Roman Empire

[Nakor]

You're right, Timmy! So we might just wait with the declaration untill turn 105.

[SIZE="4"]Turn 85[/SIZE]

Just some worker actions and some more scouting.
We got visibility on Dantski's Capital and on Djenne.

On the diplomatic front:

[SIZE="4"]The Empire:[/SIZE]

Dear DMOC and Nakor,

Thank you for your congratulations. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't this the first time that you have written to me directly, DMOC? I am glad to hear from you! I certainly hope that you make it to Code of Laws first, but it sounds like you have a good shot at that. When you found Confucianism, could you send the Missionary to Wonsan? It's quite probable that I will own the city very soon. By the way, will the Missionary need an escort? I can probably send a unit or two to fogbust towards your territory if necessary.

Getting down to business, I agree to your proposed NAP. It will last through Turn 150 (so that there is no confusion), along with the prior-warning clause of 10-turns. I am sure that we will be able to think of additional ways to assist each other in the future. In fact, there is something that I would like to request of you, if you are willing. Having taken Nar Shaddaa (formerly P'yongyang), I have taken Korea's source of Iron--at least, the only source visible. There is another unclaimed source to their west, so your east. About 3-4 tiles southeast of your city with the Gold and Marble, to be exact. If you decided that it would be prudent for you to expand in that direction, I would not object. If expanding that far is not a priority for you right now, that is understandable.

Unfortunately, I will have to decline your proposal to form an official alliance. I do not believe that I am currently at liberty to reveal many details, but suffice it to say that a bloc is already forming and the Empire will be a part of it. However, that should not stop us from forming an unofficial alliance, as it were. Believe me when I say that I hope that Holy Rome will be a valuable and long-term partner of the Empire, so I hope that this is not cause for too great of an alarm. The exact details of our agreements will have to be worked out, of course, but I am certain that something like a mutual defense pact should be in the works. I am sure that we will have much more to discuss once the demise of Sullla draws near.

My reply:

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Whosit,

We'll send the missionary to Wonsit, he'll be moving east past La Mut and an escort would be appreciated. We're in no position to send one ourselves since we're focussing on the war with India.

Thanks for the acceptance of the NAP. We wonder if the source of Iron you mentioned isn't inside La Mut's BFC. We haven't discovered IW yet, so we don't know. We are planning on a city on the same coast as Kuat before building another city in land, but we'd be happy to expand near former Korea, especially since the land near Mali is already claimed for the most part. That city on the coast can and will help you in claiming the cental island, if that's still your plan.

We are sad to hear that you're not in a position to make a more formal alliance with us at this moment. The formation of a "bloc" has us worried, especially when that bloc must contain people currently in CoW. We do understand that you can't offer us more information at this point but hope to hear more in the future. We had hoped... but maybe in the future.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

[SIZE="4"]KOREA[/SIZE]

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Plako,

Ouch! We didn't know Whosit was that strong.
I'm sure you can imagine that sending troops to you isn't in our best interest now.
We might need them ourselves soon if Whosit wants to take the war to us after you.
Let's hope Whosit doesn't have galley's yet, so your island city will be safe and you might be able to make a comeback...

Sorry we can't be of more assistance, but we have to think of ourselves as well.

Good luck in the upcoming battles.

Regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

[SIZE="4"]INDIA[/SIZE]

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Sullla,

We agree with your assesmant of the war between The Empire and Korea. We are preparing some defense in the case that we're the next target and will recall some of our scouting units.

Indeed, in the light of these new developments, an NAP untill turn 105 sounds most prudent. That leaves us with only Whosit and Dantski to worry about in the near future. What a nice game this is... so consider the NAP a deal.

Our scouting warrior will be coming from the north, now that we're recalling our southern scouts home. So it might take some more time before we get sight on your cities.

Congratulatiuns on founding Judaism! We understand the problems with missionary's, so maybe it will spread indeed. We're looking into other means to find a religion as well.

Hope to hear from you soon!
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

[SIZE="4"]CoW[/SIZE]

We agreed that signing an NAP would look better then declining. Now we need to decide how to proceed. I don't like the idea of gifting to much units...

[DMOC]

I think it's ok for us to gift dantski a couple of units. Then we move in with a slightly larger stack on turn 105 + declare, gives us more time. I'll play the next turn.

[DMOC]

[SIZE="7"]Turn 87/700 BC[/SIZE]

Not much done this turn. I just saw something I got fixed but whatever.

-Korea + Rome made peace! Funny, I thought the war would go on.



-Just a minor nitpick, I was hoping that the cottage that's being worked would be 1s because I tend not to like cottages near the bodrer since they can be destroyed easily. Not very important though.



-The axemen there shouldn't be moving there, he should be moving into the city center. Still, I changed the queue order for the axemen to stop wher ethe "3" is now just in case dantski has a road so the axe can go north faster.



-I moved an axe out of the former barb city so that he could hopefully join the front. I mean, he's got 5xp, that's good enough for city raider 2. We can whip a unit in crydee for defense once it grows.




Unfortunately, we still can't go 100% research. We will likely need 1 more turn of 0% research until we can switch back to 100% for Code of Laws. Our research sucks.

[Nakor]

Thanks for the corrections!

There has been a lot of correspondance that I'll have to post later today to keep everyone updated. I talked to Whosit and we made a great deal about where to build our cities on the mainland. That means we can get a few more good cities on the mainland if we're fast.

Therefore I think we should go for more expansion once our stack for the war is ready. And focus on more research of course. Once CoL is in, we need to build rathauses all over the place to get a better economy and better research. But once that's done, we should really pick up in speed.

[Nakor]

Time for an update on all the negotiations:

[SIZE="4"]INDIA[/SIZE]

Dear Nakor and DMOC of Holy Rome,


Great, we're very pleased to hear your acceptance. I hope that our teams can stay on good terms and continue to cooperate together. Best of luck down there in the south with Dantski and Whosit.

Sullla
The Killer Angels

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Sullla,

We hope the same!
You guys really seem the one to beat this game!

Regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

I had a nice in-game chat with Sullla. Mostly about the placement of Gao, which he frowned upon as well. He didn't seem to averse on declaring at Dantski at some point. We also talked about barb axe's and about the barb city near Whosit. Sullla already knew about this, so I wonder if he's in the "bloc" Whosit is mentioning.

[SIZE="4"]KOREA[/SIZE]

Hi Nakor,

I totally understand. I was merely just checking our options.

However we now signed peace with Whosit. Peace cost us one more city, but we should be now safe until turn 150. However You'll have now Whosit as your direct neighbour on the east and he'll be very powerful. You might be safe for some time since Whosit should have free land in the east in place of former zulu land, but he also has an army of Praetorians so you better be careful. I hope we can plan some common campaigns later when we hopefully have been able some cities up running again.

plako

[COLOR="Orange"][Hi Plako,

Good to hear that you signed peace!
That leaves you with your capital and your island city, I presume?
We do hope you will be able to expand to the islands and be a valuable partner in this game.
We are aware of Whosit and the threath his preats offer, so we are preparing for a possible war, though we hope that we'll be able to remain peacefull.

Regards,
Nakor of HRE/COLOR]

We just need to remain a bit friendly with them, but I do want to settle a bit agressive towards Korea. Whosit mentioned a 3-pop whip last turn, probably for a settler. I hope they'll settle on an island and not on the main land, but time will tell.

[SIZE="4"]THE EMPIRE[/SIZE]

Dear Nakor and DMOC,

I don't have very detailed maps of your region. What land marks are around La Mut? I wouldn't want to send the escort in the wrong direction. Regarding expansion, I'd like to coordinate that with you, though I'm sure that will have to wait until after the war with the Killer Angels, and possibly until I tech Currency and Code of Laws. At least, on my end. Code of Laws plus your Unique Building will help you expand quite a bit, I imagine.

I, too, am sorry that I cannot offer you more information regarding the "bloc." Considering that it has not gone public, even discussing its existence may have been too much, but I didn't want to keep you in the dark, either. Hopefully you can keep this information quiet until things are made official. Again, I still wish to work closely with your civilization. Which reminds me: Once I am at peace with Korea, I should already have enough soldiers to send against Sullla/Speaker. I was thinking of working on Stonehenge for lack of better projects. You're not working on this, are you? In the event that I complete it, and supposing that it generates a Great Priest, and supposing that you still lack a Shrine, I would be willing to make arrangements to exchange said Great Priest. This is all completely hypothetical, of course, considering the stage of the game, but I just wanted to put it on the table.

I do have one more request; I hope that I am not being overbearing. I am still waiting to hear from Korea with confirmation of the peace treaty. Right now, I'm not sure if the delay is simply due to a legitimate need to discuss the terms proposed, or if it is a delaying tactic. Would you be willing to help me put diplomatic pressure on Korea if it looks like they will not accept peace? I think that it would be in both our best interests, especially since it would completely free me up for the war against Sullla, and it should bury the regional powder keg for awhile. I wouldn't need you to put the screws on just yet, but if the turn rolls around and they haven't responded, it may suggest that they are stalling. Considering your proximity, and the fact that your power has been rising (for other reasons), it seems reasonable to suppose that they might listen to you. Let me know if you would be willing to do this. Certainly, I'm not asking you to declare war on them, but feel free to hint at whatever you want.

I sincerely hope that we become great partners in the future. Especially considering the shape of the land, empires will need friends to watch their backs.


Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Whosit,

There is rice south of Sethanon (gold/marble city). Our newest city is 2 tiles south of that rice, 2 tiles above the deer near the coast.
The missionary will go there. We do hope the rathauses will give us the economic posibility to expand, therefore an expansion to the center island is very likely. Again, we'd like to join you in that effort, probably after the war with India.

We're very curious about this "bloc" but hope things will become clear in the near future.
We're not after Stonehenge, so sure, you can try that. And a trade with a Great Prophet could be very interesting indeed. We'll keep that in mind.
Can we conclude from your mail that you want to sign peace with Korea? If that's so, we really don't understand that. You're in a position to get at least 2 more cities and maybe even all his cities.

Regarding the war with India, I do think that sending 4 preats to Fred-burg would be enough initialy. And the sooner they arrive, the fewer armies India can build.

We have told Korea that we're not going to aid them in their war with you due to fear of 'repercussions'. If they don't sign peace, we're willing to talk to them, of course, but, again, we don't see the need for peace at this particulare time.

Regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

[COLOR="orange"]Dear Whosit,

We understand that you accepted another city from Plako for peace. We can understand that from your point of view.
It's a very good deal for you, 2 cities for a few turns of war.
Does this mean that your preats will be able to move towards India sooner? You can use our road network if you want to send a small force by land. They should be there in time.
Is Plako included in the "bloc" you mentioned? Is he your Vassal?

Well, we hope to hear more from you soon!

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Dear Nakor and DMOC,

Nakor and I had a discussion in-game, but I'm writing to summarize and confirm what we said as best as I can.

I have indeed taken two Korean cities: Nar Shaddaa (formerly P'yongyang) which is north of Seoul, and Ryloth (former Wonsan) which is east of Seoul. I felt that getting two cities for the price of one was a pretty good deal, all things considered. While Seoul would have been a magnificent cherry to top things off, I'm pretty sure that the effort of conquering it would have outweighed the benefits at this point in time. As I mentioned to Nakor, I cannot discuss the "bloc" at this time, but I can tell you that plako is not my vassal in any way. I think that the Koreans still have too much pride for that!

That being the case, they are not under any particular protection from me, although I would rather not have any third parties conquer Seoul. I let Nakor know about the Iron nearest to Korea. It is 3SE and 1E of Sethanon, on a hill. There is irrigated Wheat 2N and 1E of that. I'm not sure if Nakor put a sign up or not, so that's why I gave the directions again. I have no problem at all with you settling aggressively against Korea, since it will make it harder for them to grow into a threat. I imagine that they will make it a priority to get a Settler out. In fact, they probably just whipped one out (3-pop whip). They don't have Iron Working as far as I know, so they may not go for that Iron site immediately. I also have a Preatorian heading in the general direction of La Mut to help guide the Missionary to safety.

With peace in hand, I there are very few demands on my military now, so most of my troops should be free for the assault. While this may best be discussed among the entire Coalition, I do plan to delay my attack until Turn 112. I am very certain that I will have four Galleys by then, so I can attack with eight Preatorians, which should be more than enough to raze Fredericksburg, and provide assistance to the other divisions. I believe that one strong attack has a much better chance of success than a couple small waves. Despite the terrible power of Preatorians, they are not invulernable, so even four could be defeat if Sullla had adequate defenses. While I cannot claim to have much experience in multiplayer warfare, I have read many accounts that suggest that concentration of force is usually the best policy. Large forces with the element of surprise are even better.

I plan to eventually settle north of Nar Shaddaa, on the coast by clams and sugar. Nakor says that none of your settlement plans will interfere with that. I do not think that we talked about anything else, though I may have forgotten as I did not keep a transcript of the chat. If I overlooked anything, please let me know

Indeed I had a chat with Whosit last night. He mentioned things correctly. I put a marker on the IRON and we could settle ON it, or 1N, I think, but I need advice there. City 7/8 marker can be moved towards the coast then and be our second city on that coast.

I'm still a bit worried about the "bloc", but we can't do a lot about that now. We are one of the weaker civ's at the moment.

[SIZE="4"]COALITION OF WILLING[/SIZE]

Let's start AFTER the whole discussion about signing an NAP.

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Friends and Allies,

We signed an NAP with India untill turn 105.
As you all have said, declining that offer might have given our plan away.
Now we need to think about how to proceed with our declaration at turn 105.
We'll discuss with Dantski what's in his best interest concerning the war. giving troops to him or just jump in at t105 with an army and speed up the war.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Dear Friends and Allies,

That was probably the best move on Holy Rome's part. We should probably start discussing when we each estimate being ready with our attacks, preferably using the Turn number that you will actually be ready to attack, not just move out.

I have made peace with Korea, so the bulk of my forces will be available for combat. My calculations show that I should have four Galleys ready in time to hit Fredericksburg on Turn 112. While I could move out earlier with a smaller force, I do not think that would be wise, as I have mentioned before. Better to hit hard once than softly a couple of times.

So I am confirmed at Turn 112.

We should avoid declarations until a turn on which at least two members of the Coalition can jointly declare. A snowball effect should not hurt our efforts, so long as those who commit first are careful to preserve their units. If dantski and Jowy are the first to attack, for example, it may be best if they focus on pillaging until reinforcements come, unless they see a good opening.

One of my scouts is travelling through Indian territory this turn. Their northernmost city, near Greece, has a couple of Axemen, a Spearman, and a couple of Chariots to defend it. Sullla/Speaker will certainly have balanced defenders in each city, so keep that in mind.


To victory,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Hi CoW people,

Just an update that my NAP with India runs out in 3 turns, while both sides have mentioned they would be interested in extending the NAP, it looks like it will run out. I am fairly confident they cannot take any cities from me and I am making sure to cover my workers near our border. Does the alliance wish me to pursue a small extension?

It is worth noting they have a woody 2 warrior just north of Kumbi Saleh, if it stays there I suggest HRE and myself attack Gettysburg instead as it will give India less warning of an attack.

-Dantski

Dantski <dpantski@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi CoW people,

Just an update that my NAP with India runs out in 3 turns, while both sides
have mentioned they would be interested in extending the NAP, it looks like
it will run out. I am fairly confident they cannot take any cities from me
and I am making sure to cover my workers near our border. Does the alliance
wish me to pursue a small extension?

It is worth noting they have a woody 2 warrior just north of Kumbi Saleh, if
it stays there I suggest HRE and myself attack Gettysburg instead as it will
give India less warning of an attack.



Hey, thought I'd mention that today I got an offer from India: Their jewish missionary for a 10 turn NAP extension. That's basically free, there has to be a motive behind it. I'd guess either they might be considering attacking Mali, or they've been tipped off of our alliance (They're getting loads of lurker comments especially from new members who might not be as careful with avoiding spoilers).

Jowy

[COLOR="orange"]Dear Friends and Allies,

I think we should be carefull of NAP extensions now that the war is coming. The longer India has to build units, the harder they will be to take down.
Dantski and Jowy, are you two ready to attack at t100? Or start the pillaging?
We'll be ready to jump in after t105, the Ottomans are on the move as well and The Empire will strike (back) with 8 preats at t112.

Just my thoughts.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Dear Friends,

I think we are in position to attack, or have troops ready for Jowy by
T100. One unit may be a turn late or so, but the bulk should be there.

I didn't have time to answer before, but I still think that we'd
benefit more by getting some of Rome's troops a bit earlier. India has
high population cities, so when the war starts they'll build units
non-stop. 12 extra turns will mean that they can get 6 troops per city
by then. Just a thought. We are very grateful and appreciative of
Rome's help here so whenever they can come they are welcome.

I lost a bit count, can we get some updates on the troop situation
from Romali, HRE, and Greece. In particular, with what troops can they
start on T100?

Thanks,
Kalin

Dear Friend and Allies,

Regarding Jowy's message, it would certainly be a shame if newer members have been giving away spoilers, but I doubt that there is any way to confirm that.

Regarding the offered Jewish Missionary, they could be attempting to pop a Great Priest for a Shrine, so spreading the faith will increase their income. Or they may simply be trying to extend the NAP. I wouldn't extend it if it would go past T100.

As for the Empire, we could get four Preatorians there earlier, but it would only be Turn 107 or 108. I don't think that it shaves enough time off to justify cutting my forces in half. Bib Fortuna is moving through Killer Angel territory, so I I'll keep an eye on how fortified their positions are. Assuming Fredericksburg has a garrison of 2 Axemen, a Spearman, and a Chariot, I'd probably be better off with 8 units. The good news is that I have access to Horses now. The bad news is that I can only build Chariots. I may build a small squad of them anyway and send them to overland as reinforcements, for what it's worth. I wouldn't be able to reinforce by sea until Turn 134, after all.

However, two members of the Coalition have asked for Preatorians sooner rather than later. If a majority requests this, I will accede. My belief still holds that it would be more effective to strike at once with a larger force, though. Likewise, if we believe that the element of surprise is lost, we would probably be better served to concentrate all of our forces on one target at a time, striking the most vulnerable first. Yes, razing their capital would be a great victory, but we have to take care that it would not be a pyrrhic victory. If they want to fortify units in their cities, let them. Pillage their cottages and resources, and let them choke on unit costs. I would take especial care of venturing adjacent to city tiles, especially if you have a stack of a single unit type. I think that I'm the only one who can get away with that at this stage of the game. I'd still like to see a more exact unit count from everyone so we can have a better idea of what we've got to throw at them.

Hopefully I have not gone on too long. In any case, I feel that while we must act boldly, we must not be reckless.

Whosit

Got this email from India shortly after my email to you guys

How would you like to renew for another 20 turns, extending until the start of Turn 110?

Not replied yet, anything other than an agreement is suspicious so wanted to know Cow thoughts.

-Dantski

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Friends and Allies,

I agree with Whosit in that getting 8 preats by turn 112 is far better then 4 at turn 107.

Dantksi, I think you should decline. Renewing the NAP makes their forces even stronger and will delay the attack even more.

We'll be ready to attack at t105 with 4 axes, 2 spears and 2-4 chariots.

Let's act soon!

Regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Well, I guess my last message sums it all up. If we all keep prolonguing our NAP's, we'll never be able to attack.

I do suggest we DON'T gift units to Dantski, but declare at t105 and move in with our stack.

[Nakor]

[SIZE="5"]Turn 88: [/SIZE]

Rolan grew to size 5! 3 turns to size 6. An Axe will be finished next turn, we'll build another axe afterwards.
Krondor will grow in 2 turns, axe finished next turn, spear afterwards
Sethanon will grow in 2 turns, library done in 7. Shall we build a militart unit or a granary afterwards?
Crydee building a monument (7 turns?) what do we build after that?
La Mut buiding a monument (2 turns) growing in a few more turns. Barracks there afterwards?

I think that we can get CoL in 3 turns if we go to 100% research next turn. 56 in the bank, cost 60, but we will manage due to extra cottages, trade routes etc.

Workers are doing what they are supposed to do. Fur will be connected soon so Rolan can grow to size 7. We need to make 2 riverside cottages near Sethanon soon. I marked them.

Still got a good feeling about this, let's hope we won't be declared on...

[DMOC]

Why don't we gift our units? Our word was that we wouldn't break a NAP. That doesn't include gifting units.

-I have caught up on all mail up to now so I'm good.

UPDAT to turn 88 plan:

-After the second axe in Rolan, we need a library, galley, or settler there.
-Sethanon should build a granary.
-La Mut - let's go with a granary. I don't think a barracks is necessary.

[Nakor]

We could gift units, but I'm not to sure about Dantski.
What do you think?

Let's go for a Library in Rolan.
I was thinking a barracks in La Mut since it will be our main unit production city, but granary is good as well.
Granary in Seth is good.

we do need to build a few chariots before t100. Do you think Krondor can manage that with 2 chops?

[m4gill4]

would it be legal to do something zany like gift a city to jowy for one turn just so that you can use his territory to gift the units to him instead of danski? that would sure screw up folks' c&d numbers

Not so different from the demogame with Team RB's work with Banana?

[DMOC]

Nah, let's not do any of that.

I think Krondor can get chariots. If not, just whip once.

Has Dantski build a road from Kumbi Saleh to Antietam?