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[SPOILERS!] Grimace and wetbandit hope to stay on their side of the DMZ

Interesting spreadsheet...I have no idea how to read it. But this is why I'm happy to have someone more experienced helping me out. smile

I think we're going with city trading enabled with restrictions.

I agree with your comments about mining being more valuable than pottery. Cottages are important, but I think during the very early part of the game food and hammers are way more important. I think we definitely want BW to be a focus; on the chance that we have bronze near our capital we want to grab it (if possible) with our second city, so having it before that first settler comes out would be really helpful. Especially if our civ has a UU that's enabled by it (Sumeria, Zulu, et al). Unless there's an obviously amazing second city site nearby, like 2 riverside gold hills next to a wet corn and cows.

Yeah, I don't think we need to stress too much about how quickly we can get BW. I think it unlikely that getting there 5 turns after someone else is going to be a game breaker. Obviously it should be a priority, but not a "let's get there as fast as we possibly can" one.

I'm thinking we pick the civ first, and my priorities would be:
1) Zulu -- Even though I'm playing them in PB20 with the ToW mod, it's just a great civ for the type of game I'm leaning towards.
2) Sumeria -- I hadn't thought of them before, but they would make a pretty good civ. A detour to Priesthood is a little out of the way for most beelines, but also gives us a reason to go for the Oracle.
3) Ottoman -- No real early benefits, but their UB dovetails nicely with Expansive (if we can pull off Shaka) and their Gunpowder UU is pretty good.
4) China -- If only they had a better UB I would move this to #2, maybe even #1. But it's hard for me to get excited about +25% culture.

Leader priorities:
1) Shaka
2) Hammurabi (would work well with Sumeria, as well).
3) Ghengis
4) George Washington (?) -- He's not aggressive, but Charismatic/Expansive is almost as good with the faster promotions.

Thoughts?
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The value in China above other civs is their starting techs. This is less of an issue in RtR. If we choose a non Agri/Hunt/Mining tech, our optimal research path will likely be to fill out the other two techs. With Sumeria and the wheel, for instance, we would research Hunting and then Mining, in all likelihood, and then onto BW. With two of Agri/Hunt/Min, we save the 6-8 turns on researching one of those techs and can apply that to BW. BW would probably finish in the early 20s compares to the late-early 30s. What this gains us is the ability to put a forest chop into the first settler. If we are IMP, that gets us 32 hammers (20+(20*.6)).

I'd also consider Ragnar, just because FIN is still pretty good. A Shaka or Ghengis game would require us to dominate the early game and would be fun with the Zulu synergy.

I agree with picking Civ first, unless if IND hasn't been picked yet and 5/6 teams have picked leaders. We can reevaluate at that point.
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Getting back to tile distribution, there will be some amount of water, probably 30-40%. So you figure around 200 land tiles, maybe a bit less, per player. This is comparable to PB17. That's a lot of space. I'm liking the EXP/AGG or IMP/AGG with Zulu a bit more.

I expect that other players/"mentors" will also understand this and choose accordingly.
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Dreylin/ipecac went for the Vikings as their choice. Seems likely they have a coastal/seafood start otherwise a water-strong civ wouldn't be a good choice. If that's the case, they'll probably want to go for a financial leader as well, so it'll be interesting to see what leader they take.
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I agree, unless they want to specifically take advantage of this bug (lol) that gives mounted units free flanking 1 from cities with trading posts, at least that's how I understand it.

1. Dreylin/Ipecac/Ruff - ? of the Vikings(Hunting/Mining, Berserker, Trading Post)
2. AdrianIer/Old Harry - UP NOW
3. Agent427/TBS - NEXT
4. Caledorn/Plako
5. Elum/Mackoti
6. Grimace/Wetbandit
7. Whosit/Gavagai
8. Whosit/Gavagai
9. Grimace/Wetbandit
10. Elum/Mackoti
11. Caledorn/Plako
12. Agent427/TBS
13. AdrianIer/Old Harry
14. Dreylin/Ipecac/Ruff
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(October 30th, 2014, 13:45)wetbandit Wrote: I agree, unless they want to specifically take advantage of this bug (lol) that gives mounted units free flanking 1 from cities with trading posts, at least that's how I understand it.

Yeah, but you still have to have coastal cities to build it, so I can't see them doing it just for that reason. Though if we had a good coastal start, they would have been on my list, too. smile
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I didn't make my comment overly tongue-in-cheek, which is what I had iontended. I stink at sarcasm and the internet. But it does help the post count.

What's the backup plan if Zulu are gone? Is there another Civ that you'd favor above all others? Evaluate if that happens?
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(October 30th, 2014, 15:07)wetbandit Wrote: I didn't make my comment overly tongue-in-cheek, which is what I had iontended. I stink at sarcasm and the internet. But it does help the post count.

I actually assumed as much, but it was actually a valid point, so I went with it too. crazyeye
My goal is to try to have the highest post count and highest number of views! whip

(October 30th, 2014, 15:07)wetbandit Wrote: What's the backup plan if Zulu are gone? Is there another Civ that you'd favor above all others? Evaluate if that happens?

Sumeria or Ottoman are a pretty close 2nd/3rd for civ choices IMO. They're both Agr/Whe and both have a decent UU/UB. I'm sort of torn over which I would prefer, though it's probably slightly in favor of the Ottoman.

EDIT: I'm actually more worried about losing our leader choice...I think Agg/Exp is the way to go, so if we lose Shaka that could also affect our civ choice.

My thoughts may also change depending on what someone else chooses, as well. In a way we're in a good spot in that we're close to the middle so we get to see most of our competitor's first choice before we make ours. Of course it means we could lose our first choice, but there's an argument to be made for being able to see other's choices before your own.
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Passed by Adriener and Old Harry, I won't stand for this!

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Shucks.

1. Dreylin/Ipecac/Ruff - Vikings
2. AdrianIer/Old Harry - Rome
3. Agent427/TBS - Zulu
4. Caledorn/Plako - UP NOW
5. Elum/Mackoti - ON DECK
6. Grimace/Wetbandit
7. Whosit/Gavagai
8. Whosit/Gavagai
9. Grimace/Wetbandit
10. Elum/Mackoti
11. Caledorn/Plako
12. Agent427/TBS
13. AdrianIer/Old Harry
14. Dreylin/Ipecac/Ruff
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