EitB PBEM XXXIX Setup and Tech Thread

[Qgqqqqq]

I can play a liveduel, if you happen to catch me at a good time, but can't commit to a normal one - I still have to catch up on one of those atm, and my time has been in short supply of late. (Hit me up at hawk2370 at Gmail.)

As to the game, I presume we're all fine with standard settings - that is, no settings on save Blessings of Amatheon, no tech trading and No Acheron. I believe we had settled on a lightly balanced Erebus Continents Map, no? I'll hit someone up about that sometime tomorrow, and no bans?

Other then that all that needs to happen is player order and emails. Please, post your time zone.

On phone so that's why post is screwy, I just wanted to move this along.

[Dreylin]

20:00 to 23:00 US Central

which I /think/ is: 02:00 to 05:00 GMT

[Kragroth]

Erebus continent (singular) is fine. I assume we're using flavor start? Oh do blessings as well as living world.

Raging barbs and all unique features.

Us eastern time. Billbisco at gmail.com

[Qgqqqqq]

Not using flavor start. Reasoning is extensive, but basically it substantially affects balance.

I don't want Raging barbs myself. No opinion on living world, I suppose am happy to have it on.

[Northstar1989]

Erebus continent (singular) is fine. I assume we're using flavor start? Oh do blessings as well as living world.

Raging barbs and all unique features.

Us eastern time. Billbisco at gmail.com

In full agreement about all of these settings (flavor start, blessings, living world, raging barbs, all unique). I could be persuaded to forgo raging barbs though- especially if somebody ends up with the Clan (which can be OP'd w/ Raging Barbs...) I really want to see the other settings included though. I would strongly prefer to play with flavor start (IMHO, it's necessary for some civs to use their strengths).

US Central Time Zone. bfw28 at cornell.edu

[Kragroth]

If we play with an erebus like map. It's gotta be flavor start. That's a big part of the fun.

Raging barbs affect clan too. The extra cities are a hindrance. ( not placed well.

[Qgqqqqq]

You're mixing up raging barbs with barbarian world, kragroth.

Can you just trust me on flavor start? It scews some over, overpowers overs. Trust me. Ir don't - just go read ffhpbem 3&7. I can give evidence, but I hope you just trust me on this -remember what happened in the teamer setup.

[Kragroth]

Of course flavor start is unbalanced. Malakim rule Orcs drool there. Erebus is an imbalanced concept to begin with as are villiages lairs etc. If you're gonna throw the kitchen sink of imbalance you might as well go all the way.

Seriously, flavor start is one of the few times I'd actually consider playing Malakim. People just have to know what civs benefit / are hurt the most from it. That would be fun.

[Northstar1989]

Of course flavor start is unbalanced. Malakim rule Orcs drool there.

Normally it's the other way around, so...

Erebus is an imbalanced concept to begin with as are villiages lairs etc. If you're gonna throw the kitchen sink of imbalance

you might as well go all the way.

Seriously, flavor stsrt is one of the few times I'd actually consider playing Malakim. People just have to know what civs benefit / are hurt the most from it. That would be fun.

Just because a set-up favors one civ over another does NOT mean it's unbalanced. The Clan, in particular, are one of the most unbelievably overpowered factions in Multiplayer. So a set-up that nerfs them actually makes the game MORE balanced.

A balanced set-up is one where every faction has a reasonable chance at victory. That *requires* that some factions get stronger start positions than other, as naturally some factions are more ill-suited to competitive play than others.

The Malakim vs. Clan start positions is basically a handicap. We use handicaps in golf, and we should use them with FFH2- where the civilizations aren't all created equal. *ESPECIALLY* when the players aren't all at an equal skill-level, and it's more accurate to lore (in FFH2 lore, the Clan inhabits land in a jungle around the Pyre of the Seraphic, for instance...)


A handicap-system, when implemented well, makes the game MORE exciting by ensuring that every player (even the best, most experienced players) has to put up their best game to earn a victory. It's more exciting than experienced players ROFL-stomping rookies, and the Clan steamrolling over everyone (in Multiplayer, early-rush factions are at a DRASTIC advantage, as humans are much more skillful at warfare than the AI). The fact that it shows greater respect for Lore to use a flavor-start just makes it even better...


Regards,
Northstar

[Qgqqqqq]

I'm sorry, but the entire reason we play EitB is we think it makes the civs, if not equal, then at least within shouting distance of each other. If you think that the Clan are ludicrously overpowered in competitive MP or the Malakim ridiculously weak, than you are welcome to air your opinions in the appropriate thread and we can look into improving them. Perhaps that is the case in the base game (I disagree, however), but I like to think that it is not the case here. (Not to mention that the Clan aren't...really a rush civ. Slow workers, slow research [especially early-game] and the slow process of setting up warrens mean that, IMO, they don't count as rushers. But that's besides the point.)

With the best will in the world, I started this thread to propose a mostly-normal game which tested out/had fun with the later-eras starts. Not to experiment with hard-to-quantify handicaps that are, IMO, both unnecessary in EitB and not even benefiting the correct civs across the board. If this is a sticking point for anyone here, than, quite frankly, you can start your own thread - even link it from here - and I'll happily watch that game. But, unfortunately, they are a sticking point for me, and I've decided I wouldn't be prepared to play a game with flavor starts, so I'm going to impose authorial fiat on this, and say this is a thread for setting up a late-era game without a flavor start.

I'm happy to discuss the issues you've raised here, but not in this thread.

My timezone is roughly GMT 0300->0900