[spoilers] Going Dutch: The Commodore Files

[Mardoc]

Wow, talk about your restless neighbors. Not one, but two ancient era wars? And apparently at least the first one was profitable, even!

Maybe...maybe our position isn't so bad after all. Even if we can't take advantage this instant.

[Commodore]

Wow, talk about your restless neighbors. Not one, but two ancient era wars? And apparently at least the first one was profitable, even!
Maybe...maybe our position isn't so bad after all. Even if we can't take advantage this instant.

Aaaaaand peace.

Ah well, sorry Mardoc. If it makes you feel better, here's a picture of massive scout failure. That these fertile peninsulae of fish and horseflesh go unsettled by Plako means he must have some vast holdings indeed, and that his scout early on must have traveled amazingly far. Wow, guys.

Much food. Many horse. Wow.

[Mardoc]

Ok, so it wasn't a substantial war. Still trashed their mutual trade routes and makes future war more likely, right?

At least Mycenian looks like a good profit for us. XP and a capturable city! Sure, if I were settling it, I'd put it 1S, but I don't think that's enough better to be worth 100h and the 5-10 turn delay it would take to get a settler over here. Nor the delay on future cities - like horse city #2!

[Whosit]

Even with Mycenian's current location, a viable filler city might be 1E of that lake, right? Could pick up the corn and/or fish.

[Commodore]

Agreed with both of you, and I was considering how best to get the heroic epic from them...

Not much of an invasion.

...when I checked out the other side of the city and found out the situation was much, much more interesting. Bleh, I don't want to deal with this right now, Plako.

Not much of an invasion on either side, really..

Out in the west, we've encountered Mr. GermanJojo of Carthage, proud owner of circumnavigation (+1 sight in this one, I believe) this turn. Okay, cool, Pacific is navigable by Kon-Tiki analogs.

There's another awesome-with-a-dike island city to settle on that desert isle.

Jojo asked for our last gems for one of his gold. I rejected, but offered him 3g for 3g, in three more turns I'll cheerfully trade him dyes. He's at fifteen cities to our fourteen, for whatever that's worth. His city sizes tell us he's been rocking continental-style luxury counts for a lot longer, though. Good on yeh, Skippy.

Still would rather be competing with him than Plako, though.

[Commodore]

So, then, let's segue into a talk about frontiers. GermanJojo traded maps, in a addition to opening borders and agreeing to my 3g for 3g trade. So the moment dyes #1 come online, we'll trade 'em to Carthage for gold, woot. Unless Gawdzak is already? Meh, we'll see. In any case, we now know a path through the Pacific. I want to make it at least as far as that copper/fish spot, if possible. I think I see a good thirty-city goal for the empire by turn 150, a crapload of them out in these Indies.

Tora! Tora? Tora...

Here's a smaller, but even more lush, frontier over here. This is an incredibly extensive sea, evidently reasonably remote from Plako (who must have vast lands indeed). He might opt to burn the barb city next turn; if so, fair enough. But want that spot, and the filler east, and the horse/seafood grass peninsula too. Basically, we've got a nice heavy goal here...think we can wrest this from Plako?

MY SEA, PLAKO

[Whosit]

A couple questions. A 30-city goal by turn 150 means you'll need to slightly more than double your city count (14) in about 36 turns (gain 16 cities in that time). How do you plan to do that? To someone like me, that seems impossible. Or, rather, I might be able to imagine getting that number of settlers out, but not also the workers and troops needed to support those cities (plus the logistics of settling so many cities overseas). Do you have a plan?

Secondly, what if Plako doesn't burn the city? Would you try to take it from him (risking a broader war with him)? Would you let him have it?

As far as taking this inner sea area, well, I doubt I'm in a position to guess if you can hold it or not. It seems hard to say without knowing much of the geography there. Looks like most cities would have to be settled on flat-lands, you'd need both a hefty ground force of troops to defend against a push from Plako, and you'd probably need naval superiority, too. At least, that's how it seems with what I think is conventional thinking. If, however, it turns out there's some convenient geography that can be used as a border, that might reduce the amount of troops needed to protect the region (would probably still need a navy, though).

Request: Could you show us your current demographics?

[Commodore]

Whosit, you deserve a detailed post answering this, and I'll get to the meat tomorrow; weekend is kind of hard for big posts. However...

Request: Could you show us your current demographics?

If researching, 3rd place GNP.

Also, for reference, a few relevant/interesting graphs:

Soldiers/MFG dull, Culture is lame. EP...it's sad.

[Mardoc]

Oof. I didn't realize there were crop yield differences that big already! 3x difference between HAK and dtay! No wonder you list one of them as a contender and the other as a potential target.

The more you scout (and maptrade), the more I agree the best thing to do for now is keep pushing peaceful expansion. Settlers are cheap compared to what it would cost to take cities from plako or dtay, and most of what you're finding will be super excellent once the Dutch uniques come into effect. I do kinda wish you went for Fin instead of Agg, though.

[Commodore]

Newsy news of the last few turns! First off, a little context/recap. I settled Ghost Story here in the middle of a mighty forest and then expedited a border-expansion to get them all inside culture ASAP. I figured I'd give the Great Library a shot, it's only 200 hammers with marble, right?

This is where the wild worker things are.

Er. Wrong. Baseline is 350 hammers, so without forge or OR, I looked at another four turns after the chopping turn until it landed. I figured given Gawdzak got Music quite a long while ago, no chance of making the build in that time, so instead I opted to grab the Statue of Zeus. Probably a better fit for the city in any case; the hilly central nexus is a prime location for the Heroic Epic and with aggressive this could very well become a Commando-pump. Also seen, Plako taking the bone of contention and setting it on fire.

I hear those grapes are sour, anyway, amirite?

So much for 1AD. With pretty appropriate timing in 25AD on the roll Christianity was founded. Taoism also fell (weird, usually that's a bulb), but it fell to a dead man walking in Furungy so meh, who cares. I won't lie, I briefly considered making a beeline for Divine Right next for Islam, but the game isn't that far gone into silly season yet.

The new calendar is accompanied by Calendar.

Wars and rumors of wars abound, but in a move of pure, refined, 100% high-grade insanity HAK declared war on Gavagai and burned a front city (they then made peace). That's...not a very good setup, there, HAK. Intrepid reporter scout Scout is here on the scene, and nope, I'm not getting this. Sure, it's pretty enough land but HAK has utterly stupid amounts of land north and south of himself going painfully unsettled. This is just stupid guys and I'm done talking about this nut.

Also shown, Mackoti cackling with maniacal glee as his moronic victims self-immolate for him.

A couple questions. A 30-city goal by turn 150 means you'll need to slightly more than double your city count (14) in about 36 turns (gain 16 cities in that time). How do you plan to do that? To someone like me, that seems impossible. Or, rather, I might be able to imagine getting that number of settlers out, but not also the workers and troops needed to support those cities (plus the logistics of settling so many cities overseas). Do you have a plan?

As far as taking this inner sea area, well, I doubt I'm in a position to guess if you can hold it or not. It seems hard to say without knowing much of the geography there. Looks like most cities would have to be settled on flat-lands, you'd need both a hefty ground force of troops to defend against a push from Plako, and you'd probably need naval superiority, too. At least, that's how it seems with what I think is conventional thinking. If, however, it turns out there's some convenient geography that can be used as a border, that might reduce the amount of troops needed to protect the region (would probably still need a navy, though).

Okay, so here's the thing, I set goals like this to push myself hard. 16 cities in 32 turns is pretty hard to reach, but I definitely want to come as close as humanly possible. Plako might well be an issue for those peninsulas, but my thinking is less that we can hold flat cities over there, more that if Plako does take anything he'll be forced to burn them of else face amphibious wrath from the Dutch-controlled Mediterranean. It is certainly not acceptable for Plako to control that sea.

Here's a picture of my planned dots for the remaining mainland spots (and Scotsman's Wife Island). Most of them aren't all that impressive, but a dye plantation and a couple IC-TR will pay for any city you care to settle around here. I'm also showing here the planned nutty irrigation chaining. That one little lake tile is going to feed multitudes, I swear to ye. If it's not a farm, it's either a grassland cottage or a plains workshop in this scenario.

Ecological Disaster: A How-To Book

I'm honestly a bit at a loss for how I want to proceed next. In 7-8 turns, we'll have a great scientist and Monarchy/Monotheism/Code of Laws for a golden age swap-nanza. But after that...I'm thinking that as lovely as Astronomy is, the real prize to aim for medium-term is Economics. Civil Service by the end of the golden age, then go up the Guilds line for forges (hammers), workshops/windmills (hammers), and knights (security). Then it's some mix of Banking, Paper, Education, on to Economics. Free Market is such a huge boon on this map and will ALWAYS remain the ultimate answer for “how do you afford all those cities?”

Certainly, the capital won't mind Bureaucracy from that push, and once all cities get 20gpt base from routes Astronomy isn't a very long way away at all. Gunpowder, Construction, Engineering, Chemistry...then we've got out Other Unique open for us in Steam Power, plus, well, Steel and Military Science. But we've got to figure out a good hard bulb line to push, once the National Epic gets up here I want lots and lots of scientists out of this place.

Still not Ottawa.