[Spoilers] The Network assimilates ipecac, Ruff_Hi & Dreylin (Monty of Vikings)

[ipecac]

Smurf tube has got off somewhere, because the Worker is now due at the end of next turn; a turn before you have the first whip. I presume that we whip next turn for the overflow and adjust the plan accordingly ... I haven't taken that on yet, but will do if I have time later.

You're right; it's fixed.

There is an even larger problem with Smurf and 2.5"; the max happiness numbers in the Sheet are wrong! I'm not sure why 2.5" is showing max as 7, nor why Smurf is showing as increasing to 7 this turn - in all likelihood it's previously proposed Temple builds that weren't quite backed out. Regardless, 2.5" should be OK with an earlier garrison and a more-limited growth curve, but Smurf throws off the plan in about 5t... (Max Happiness is 7 in Hub, 6 in cities with Buddhism, 5 elsewhere - nowhere has a Temple or Forge yet for extra)

To add another spanner to the works, I never tried to accurately account for the number of turns of saving Gold that will be needed to start Maths research.

Sorry I didn't make it clear, in the old plan only needed chops from T91 onwards. But both of the problems above will require the date to be pushed back, so as per your plan we finish the chop mine on T75 without delay; math comes in EOT T93 which allows us to complete the Colossus via chopping the other three forests (1NE, 3E and 2SE) on T94. (Science is not as close as it looks as I haven't factored in 10+ beakers from hamlet).

When Access Point is founded, I expect our break-even to be around 40%.

I hope you don't mind that the plan involves founding Keystone Jack 1W of the Sheep around T85 2 Workers to road up there with Axe escort and a Chariot if necessary.

2.5", of course needs reworking after the whip. My suggestion would be that we build a second Axe following the one we've whipped; slow building that corresponds with the time to regrow to size4, where we could start to slow build a Worker or Settler to wear off some more of the Anger. The second Axe can head to garrison Access Point.

The second axe (completing eot 78) should go north to secure the city spot and make sure it's safe for workers to road through. A third axe complete T82 which can go to Access Point (we'll slow growth by working the silver for much needed commerce).

Twisted Pair had problems that it was working the Improved Cows before that was finished and the grass forest hill before the borders had popped. I rejiggered using the tiles available and kept the same Granary / growth timing without impacting Patch Panel (yay!). That's the next ~5t, but after that we have the potential to add the chop from the Western Forest. I sketched out the two Workers chopping and Pasturing the Horses, but these two can be switched if we want the chop in 2t earlier and the Horses 3-4t later. On another note, I'm not sure that we need to whip in the Walls here; maybe better to grow onto the Horses and work them.

Yeah, we don't need to whip the Walls. The chop timing is fine: Chariot completes from Twisted Patch should move towards Adrien to find a good place for a border city. Twisted Patch has good hammer output so we should chop the forest hill S-SW of it into a forge when Math comes in, then have it build military (and cheap cultural buildings if needed).

Other stuff: we should get a Great Priest out T100 which should help us limp towards Currency. Looks like Elum is going for Writing; my guess is that all the IMP Civs are reaching their expansion limit and going for Currency. Since we have contact with all 3 of them we should get known tech bonuses

[ipecac]

I don't know about the dry whip costs, I think it varies from wonder to wonder.

Ah well, don't think we'll need it.

[Dreylin]

Going to have a detailed look at the plan, but everything sounds good. Here are a few things I have been noodling around:

1) We could let the Spear pillage the Copper so that we have a (short) period to build additional Warriors for MP duty. I meant to post this yesterday, but we probably have another turn to decide since it moved onto the Workshop and will probably pause to pillage that. TBH though, I'm not sure we actually have a city that makes enough hammers for this to be worthwhile....

2) I'd seen you testing out a run at the Great Lighthouse. I'm quite indifferent to this; I think pursuing one Wonder at a time is probably enough (more than enough?) and if we're looking at another then I think it should be the Pyramids for the synergy with SPI. Although on that we could just cede it to Elum and then go take it from him later...

3) Happiness is becoming an issue and we don't really have a good way to solve it. Options are:

3.1) Monarchy for HR & Wines - I almost suggested we take this instead of MC, but too late now
3.2) Gems & Forges - we will need IW to get Keystone Jack's Gems out from under the Jungle, and I don't think we can hold the ones to the East next to Adrien.
3.3) Calendar - is a long way off
3.4) Furs - across the water, and we don't know enough about the surrounding terrain / neighbours

Of these I think Monarchy is probably the easiest to implement, but I assume that we do still want Maths next. In which case it's cheap Temples and easing off the whip.

4) Our position verses competitors: I think we're doing OK, but not well. I believe we're on par or a little behind on research (excepting MC, which puts us ahead); several people have Writing, but I doubt that anyone has anything past it yet. Before we got The Oracle we were bottom score, likely on Land and Population, both of which we have been and still are low on. We are starting to catch up here, but are still behind. I think we did a great job securing a good border with Elum and we have quite a lot of land to backfill at a later date. Grabbing land to the North and possibly across the water to the South should probably be interspersed with backfilling - we should look to add the Eastern Point city soonish to complete defogging of out back lines. (I have a Warrior stationed South of Twisted Pair to keep that area free)

5) Great People - t100 is nice for the Prophet and will make a big difference. It made me start to think about how to get the Great Scientist for Academy and I want to propose Patch Panel. It's main function is as a support / linking city, and it really doesn't have a lot of good tiles to work until borders pop (and I doubt we'll prioritise a Missionary here). So if we whip/overflow a Library into it, we can run a pair of scientists at size 3 just working the Fish, or Size 4 working Fish & Horses, and then it has a valuable purpose of its own.

6) This just occurred to me, but would OrgRel make more difference to us in the near future than Mathematics? It would certainly come in earlier and it would help out more than just the Colossus build making Forges more viable. It would almost then make sense to delay Maths further and grab Monarchy for the Happiness since then we would have the extra pre-requisite....

Things I will check in game next time I log in:
a) Approximate research time for Maths vs Poly/Mono.
b) demographics and graphs (we have Agent's now)
c) anything you need to see for planning purposes???

[Dreylin]

Well here goes:

Poly & Mono ~22t
Maths ~24t

at current break-even research. Maths we will get known tech bonus on, but Poly & Mono we will not so it would be a pretty similar time to research IMO.

Demogs, etc.:

[Dreylin]

I'll start with the Mea Culpa; I screwed up last turn at Twisted Pair and forgot to make the tile switch necessary to keep on the Granary plan, so we're going to end up 1h short when we're ready to whip.

Second Mea Culpa, I misjudged the Settler moves to get to Access Point - we're actually going to found a turn earlier than we had expected. The Workboat is still going to connect on the same turn though, so we gain 3/0/2 over the expected. I updated the sheet quickly and that is showing a 1h shortfall on the Granary as well. <sigh>

Oh, and our expenses are higher than you had thought:


I'll take the same shot next turn after Access Point has founded.

Good news is that our Axe beat the Barb Spear (who had moved onto the Silver). Took damage, of course, but gained 2xp so will have a promotion waiting if we need.

[ipecac]

I'll start with the Mea Culpa; I screwed up last turn at Twisted Pair and forgot to make the tile switch necessary to keep on the Granary plan, so we're going to end up 1h short when we're ready to whip.

Second Mea Culpa, I misjudged the Settler moves to get to Access Point - we're actually going to found a turn earlier than we had expected. The Workboat is still going to connect on the same turn though, so we gain 3/0/2 over the expected. I updated the sheet quickly and that is showing a 1h shortfall on the Granary as well. <sigh>

It's okay, mistakes happen.

Going to have a detailed look at the plan, but everything sounds good. Here are a few things I have been noodling around:

1) That's a good idea, and we have Twisted Pair which can output 10h/t starting ~T86. It may be better to pillage the jungle road instead, and we shouldn't do it while putting hammers into Colossus.

2) GLH was more of a micro exercise; we really can't afford the time and hammers now.

3) For happiness, we do have whales W of the Hub; whaling boats are enabled at Sailing in this mod. I'm reconsidering settling 1W of Sheep just to get the whales, 1W of Sheep is slow and doesn't really grab us anything (as you say, Gems will take some time to get).

5) Good idea. I was thinking of doing it in Access Point, but we can do something else there: it has a lot of hammer potential.

6) Hmm... Org Rel is cheaper beaker wise to get to and useful for other stuff like Granaries and Lighthouses, but Mathematics opens up Currency...

Yeah, I think you're right. Calendar is going to take awfully long, and we really need the

If there're no objections, I'll rework the Plan for polytheism->monotheism->monarchy, as well as settling the whales. Do we want to settle Yellow dot? I'm thinking S-SW of that, which allows it to share The Hub's Fish while grabbing its own. We lose some tiles but they're just crappy Plains tiles

[Dreylin]

S-SE of Yellow looks good to me, and I like targeting it next. Northern spot secures us land and access to land, however it costs us economy; the closer spot is much more sensible in our current financial situation. We'll need The Hub to build the Workboats and I think we'll need a Missionary out of 2.5" Conduit as we really don't want to have to wait for a lucky spread and I don't think that spot needs a Barracks.

About tech targets; I know I floated the idea, but I'm not sold on it tbh. You're right this does divert us from Currency, which will be a valuable tech for us. Either way we're going to have to spend 10t+ saving gold before we make a run at either, so we don't need to make that decision yet. I'd suggest we keep our 1beaker going into Maths and then we can decide to switch when we're ready to turn research back on.

OH! I knew there was something I forgot to mention last night about The Plan: the extra Gold you have being generated in the Science sheet - you are showing 3gpt for a Priest Specialist ... but that's a Merchant; Priests only generate 1gpt!

We should have a much better idea of expenses next turn when we settle Access Point - which I'm guessing will be a net positive due to trade route and working the Lake tile.

[ipecac]

S-SE of Yellow looks good to me, and I like targeting it next. Northern spot secures us land and access to land, however it costs us economy; the closer spot is much more sensible in our current financial situation. We'll need The Hub to build the Workboats and I think we'll need a Missionary out of 2.5" Conduit as we really don't want to have to wait for a lucky spread and I don't think that spot needs a Barracks.

About tech targets; I know I floated the idea, but I'm not sold on it tbh. You're right this does divert us from Currency, which will be a valuable tech for us. Either way we're going to have to spend 10t+ saving gold before we make a run at either, so we don't need to make that decision yet. I'd suggest we keep our 1beaker going into Maths and then we can decide to switch when we're ready to turn research back on.

OH! I knew there was something I forgot to mention last night about The Plan: the extra Gold you have being generated in the Science sheet - you are showing 3gpt for a Priest Specialist ... but that's a Merchant; Priests only generate 1gpt!

[ipecac]

Most important change in Plan is to switch 2.5" to Missionary, delaying the Axe that will garrison Access Point. Otherwise minor changes to fit around settling Keystone Jack (2WB from the Hub and Missionary from 2.5").

So uh, I forgot to edit the spreadsheet to take into account all the new cities :v

Math should be in T90-91

[Dreylin]

Er, just took a quick look; how are you getting Keystone Jack's borders popped in 5t? Religion will just generate 1culture per turn, right?

So the Hub can get away without whipping the first WB I think, and maybe Keystone can build the second itself?

Does Patch Panel really need the Barracks? I can't see us building many units here and if it's just to pop borders I'd think we'd be better getting a Missionary in.

The Worker plan needs updating as well to divert the road to the new location? Also the Worker at Smurf will do pre-chop stuff, while the new one works on Cottages at The Hub?