PB24 IT and Tech issues thread

[retep]

Uh? You press F8 and check the settings, then press F4 and check your techs, then you look at your screen for six seconds to check if the icon for espionage is there or not.

Anyway my reason to continue playing is selfish and stupid so I don't really care how this ends, but something I do have to bring some light is that the tile of my thread is even more awesome now.

[spacetyrantxenu]

This is another "correct me if I'm wrong, but..." post. I don't think the players can actually see the game settings, so we don't have a way to look at what the actual game file shows.

As retep said, F8 and the clicking on Settings will get you what you're looking for. This screenshot is from PB18, as an example:




I haven't logged into PB24 but I expect there's going to be some mention of No Espionage under the options column.

As for restarting or not, it's up to you guys. Looks like for now a majority are in favor of playing on, even if not everyone is happy about it. That said, maybe someone should pause the game if it isn't already paused. I'm not sure if you guys have a full roster of players right now or not (per Jojo's post in Civ General). Probably need to work out who is playing turns for that civ before rolling the turn.

[Commodore]

Well, PBs 20 and 21 just died...

[Donovan Zoi]

Uh? You press F8 and check the settings, then press F4 and check your techs, then you look at your screen for six seconds to check if the icon for espionage is there or not.

Anyway my reason to continue playing is selfish and stupid so I don't really care how this ends, but something I do have to bring some light is that the tile of my thread is even more awesome now.

Apparently, all sorcery comes with it's price.

OK, so based on the responses in this thread, this is what I see:

Thoth: firm continue
Commodore: firm continue

retep: light continue
wetbandit: light continue (changed from restart)
Gawdzak: light continue
luddite: light continue (change from not stated)

Grimace: light restart
Donovan: light restart

Elkad: firm restart
Jojo: firm restart

Krill: firm abstain
yuris: abstain

Xenu is awaiting our decision on this so he can fix the game tonight if a restart is chosen and it looks like this will be decided in the middle. Grimace and I are both "light restart" category and I don't see that changing. Many of the "light continue" group made that decision as long as no one objected, and now objections have arisen. With that in mind:

Does anyone from the "light continue" camp wish to change to restart knowing how it affected the picks of some players and may cause two of them to leave the game?

This question may sound like extortion but it really is not. It's just a matter of whether we choose to go by the settings that most of us assumed were correct and based decisions on. Let's face it, espionage is a non-factor in the early game so it's entirely plausible for us all to have missed it.

[GermanJoey]

I wouldn't quit because Thoth got 3 techs. Whether he keeps them or not makes not one whit of difference to me staying. I'd actually like him to keep them, but that may be bias because I'd get to keep one too. Well actually, I'm willing to forfeit my tech and let him keep his if that's what it takes to get a reload.

I didn't read JoJo's post as being upset about Thoth's luck either. Edit: Or anyone else, I read it all as poking a bit of fun at him.

I wrote a big ranty post in reply to Krill's, but then I read yours and realized that I might have read his backwards. I don't know. Anyways, I was trying to be gracious in the post where I said I was quitting, I didn't want to ruin the game. If it's not clear to everyone, I am 95% quitting because Thoth got 3 free Huge-map cost techs from huts, whereas I got REDACTED (it was not techs), and 5% quitting because of the espionage thing. I might actually prefer espionage off for a game, but, I picked a civ with a cheap courthouse that wants it everywhere. It's really a small thing compared to huts for me, I wouldn't want to restart just for that.

I thought about getting bowing out when the setting vote for huts came up yes, because I hate them in general from years of SP play and hated them even more in PB22, but... I thought, hey, you're still excited for this new game, maybe it won't be so bad. They're random, right? A free tech here and there, I might grumble about that sure, but I can deal. But three techs in 5 turns? It's too much for me. 5 turns in and all the choices we made from the snake pick (and I don't know about y'all, but I put a lot of thought into my picks there) is completely washed away and rendered pointless. I'm reminded of Sulla's recent review of Civ5 BNW, where he lambasted the game because all the random starting bonuses you can find on the map (e.g. The Fountain of Youth) make player decisions pointless in the same way. With this map seemingly being a cornucopia of huts, I see it as the same shit. And, you know, maybe at another time, e.g. in a goofier game like PB18, and if I had less stresses IRL, I'd be down for that, but I was intending to sign up for a Serious Business game and this just isn't that.

I guess huts for me are like how Torodial wrap was for Commodore, I just can't stomach them, and I should have said something more strongly about that instead of backing out after the game already started.

[Grimace]

Well, you learn something new every day. I never knew that was there. From now on, I will check at the start of any game I join.

I totally understand GJ's point of view because we got a low-probability event (someone getting 3 techs? I've never gotten that in an SP game!) and it definitely gives that player a huge advantage.

The way I see it, though, we basically have three options:
1) We continue from where we are. We end up having to find 1 or more subs (GJ & possibly Elkad) and we don't have espionage (which the majority of people wanted). We have no idea how long it will take until we have subs and are ready to play again.
2) We do a restart. We end up having to find 1 or more subs (possibly GJ & Thoth), and we have espionage enabled, which will make most people happy. We have no idea how long it will take until we have subs and are ready to play again.
3) We throw out the entire game, call it a Charlie-Foxtrot, and start over with PB 24.5, where we just reduce the number of players on the map to whoever is still in and start again.

[wetbandit]

I could really go either way. If you need a firm answer, my vote is to play on in light of the fact that a reload with hut techs granted appears to be very difficult to practically do and requires the additional time from a lurker. There's no apparent fair way to do a reload that everyone will agree upon.

I'm sensitive to the fact that people made moves in reliance of the fact that espionage would be on, as I had initially intimated with my first comment. I don't understand why the level of discourse has risen to invective about failure to check settings. It's early and people are excited to play, a reasonable oversight.

[Thoth]

Just to clarify:

I'm ok with playing on with the current settings.

I'm ok with a restart to correct a mistake in the settings.

I'm not ok with a restart because people don't like the RNG results so far this game or for people to change moves they may not have liked.

[SevenSpirits]

I totally understand GJ's point of view because we got a low-probability event (someone getting 3 techs? I've never gotten that in an SP game!) and it definitely gives that player a huge advantage.

For the record, this isn't really a low probability event. If all 12 players each pop 4 huts, the odds of at least one of the players getting 3-4 techs is about 33%. This is what happens when you play with huts. It adds some variance to starts.

[luddite]

So it sounds like Jojo really wants to drop out either way. The bigger issue is with Elkad, who really wants espionage on. And yeah, we did vote on that, and its hard to catch every little thing on turn 0 when you're also busy simming starts and such. I'm willing to restart for his sake. Although I still don't know what to do about the extra prerequisite beakers from having techs at the start.