WW 34--The Slugfest!

[BRickAstley]

Tally as of post 360:

4 votes: Bob (Jkaen, novice, zakalwe, Jowy)
1 votes: Jabbz (Lewwyn)
1 votes: Jkaen (Gazglum)

Voting history:

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bob

Jkaen

Bob

Bob

Bob

Jkaen

[AdrienIer]

Wow 3 kills, 2 on team mafia but not openly mafia one with a fun role. Vig is most likely but you never know, if Bob is saying the truth there are many ways to get killed in this setup. With 16 players at the start and already 2 out of 3 kills being traitors we might only be looking at ~2 mafia and some hidden supporters.
As for today I'm going to have to go after Bob, if you're not town and no one dares attack you at night by fear of being killed in return you become unstoppable. Sorry, your role makes sense but now that it's revealed it's just too dangerous.[/color]

[Bobchillingworth]

Well, predictably I've got a lot of stuff to reply to. Bleh.

The above points I would have suspected Bob to have picked up on, as of his post 309 it seemed he was starting to get heat, and that is a pretty wierd role even for MJW, I am going to say this is scum trying to protect himself from vigilantes.

Oh and Jabbz, I took the 2nd quote you listed (with the blue text) as claiming noobness as well. Unlike Zak though for a person playing their second game, I have no issues with you doing it

Anyway vote squarely on
Bob

I was operating under the assumption that Sunrise was a mafia goon, not a carbon-copy of Rowain's role. That's fairly obvious if you actually read what I wrote previously. My fault for not realizing that "You are a traitor." referred to Sunrise's role (I would have expected "traitor" to be capitalized), and was not just a generally declaration of scumminess on MJW's part. Note that the role is now properly capitalized in the player roster.

Bob, what's the name of your role?

HyperBomb.

I don't advise trying to confirm it.


Uh, we're allowed to reveal role titles, right?

Well, if you're telling the truth, then I don't see how you're a liability to the village. Quite the opposite, really. So why would we want to policy lynch you?

I think my meaning wasn't particularly difficult to understand. If people don't believe me, which is obviously and predictably the case here, then I'm a liability because I could get targeted by a village seer, flavor seer, name seer, roleblocker, vig, etc. Telling the truth =/= players accept that I'm telling the truth. I don't want to get lynched, because it's wasting a day and a warm body for the village, but if I do swing I at least stop being a menace to incredulous villagers.

That you are in fact attempting to policy lynch me at present suggests to me that you're being purposefully obtuse.

Jkaen, why can't Sunrise be a village vig kill?

What kind of vig shoots someone N1 on the basis of zero evidence? If sunrise was a vig kill, the vig is likely of the compulsive variety, ie. a village-aligned SK. Or, more likely given the win condition, just a regular SK.

I know its dangerous to read into flavour text for the kills, but given that Q was shot and Sunrise burnt I believe Q was the vig kill.

I acknowledge the scum killing what could be seen by them to be a confirmed villager, and sunrise who people had suspicions about being shot makes more logic, but with the wording on the kills as it was it doesn't make sense.

Those are some impressive leaps of logic. Also, we haven't confirmed the existence of a Vig in any way, shape or form. Are you purposefully attempting to divert attention from the possibility of a SK / third party?

Bob, does your pm say anything about kill methods? How exactly is it that you and your visitor(s) will die?

I die via exploding. I assume my visitors are killed by shrapnel or something.

After some reflection I find myself agreeing with Jkaen on Bob.

Seriously, novice? You "reflected" on Jkaen voting for me because I misunderstood Sunrise's role and my claim is supposedly too strange for MJW? That's a weak attempt to make it look like you put some thought in your vote before jumping on an easy mislynch.

I mean, he said: "I figured I should at least try to ride out one night". How does that even make sense? What has he got to fear from claiming during the night instead of doing it after dawn?

I've gotten N1 killed by scum once before, and often get blocked by scum because I tend to be quite good at picking my night targets and advocating for myself to stay alive during the day. I figured that I ought to at least give myself a chance to blow up scum with me on the first night. Claiming on Day 1 would have completely dominated the cycle and likely ended with myself getting policy lynched on the spot; at least today we also have the D1 / N1 results to discuss & consider in addition. I'm not sure what the advantage of claiming during the night would have been, save to make it seem like I was scum desperately trying to avoid a seer scan or vig shot.

Is your role explicitly limited to night visits? Does it say anything about day visits?

My power only works at night.

Bob should full claim.

Unless you meant "name claim", I have nothing else to tell you about my role.

As for today I'm going to have to go after Bob, if you're not town and no one dares attack you at night by fear of being killed in return you become unstoppable. Sorry, your role makes sense but now that it's revealed it's just too dangerous.[/color]

Choo-choo, all aboard the convenient policy lynch train!



Whatever, I've been resigned from the start that I have almost no chance of surviving very long in this game. If you all want to lynch me, go for it. All I ask is that, after I'm confirmed in death, the village pays close attention to the people voting me on the basis of spurious reasoning and/or the chance at an easy mislynch on policy grounds.


Also, we're all playing in a bastard role game. Hooray.

[MJW (ya that one)]

1. I don't send out Role PMs randomly so every message would mean something.
2. Mafia can private talk during the day.

[BRickAstley]

Note he claimed after brick posted he was informed he was visited in the night, that infers you get told if you were visited, hence bob knows he wasn't

I'm not sure on this logic. It is unusual to be told that you were visited, and reading Brick my assumption wasn't that any player will be told if they are visited (meaning Bob knew he was safe to claim). I assumed that something specific has happened to Brick to give him that message.

Yeah, what happened to me, as the flavor was given, indicates that something specific was done to me. It wasn't an "Oh you happen to hear noises at night", more like "Oh you wake up and see someone threw an egg at your house." It doesn't seem to be an indication of only being visited.

[Jowy]

Well I think Bob is town and we should move on to someone else.

Jkaen

[BRickAstley]

So Jowy, now that you've switched off of the Bob train back onto Jkaen, can you explain both why you voted him in the first place, having offered no prior reasoning as to why you'd vote him, and why you then so easily followed Jkaen right-away on his case of the day?

Also don't think you can offer the following quote in a vacuum without telling us more than that.

We can probably win by mass claiming Day 3 or Day 4. Keep that in mind when we get there.

[Gazglum]

Hey Bob, as someone who has in the past been given bastard roles as town, I'm sorry if that's what happened to you too. I feel the pain.

I mean, he said: "I figured I should at least try to ride out one night". How does that even make sense? What has he got to fear from claiming during the night instead of doing it after dawn?

I've gotten N1 killed by scum once before, and often get blocked by scum because I tend to be quite good at picking my night targets and advocating for myself to stay alive during the day. I figured that I ought to at least give myself a chance to blow up scum with me on the first night. Claiming on Day 1 would have completely dominated the cycle and likely ended with myself getting policy lynched on the spot; at least today we also have the D1 / N1 results to discuss & consider in addition. I'm not sure what the advantage of claiming during the night would have been, save to make it seem like I was scum desperately trying to avoid a seer scan or vig shot.

So after suspicion during Day 1, and a very near hanging at the end of day, did you think that scum investigating or killing you would have been more likely than a town cop? Wouldn't that have been the advantage of claiming during the night, to protect the village? Surely the only way delaying the claim made sense is if you thought the chance that one of the ~4 scum hitting you in the night, was higher than one of the ~12 town doing it?

[Jowy]

So Jowy, now that you've switched off of the Bob train back onto Jkaen, can you explain both why you voted him in the first place, having offered no prior reasoning as to why you'd vote him, and why you then so easily followed Jkaen right-away on his case of the day?

Also don't think you can offer the following quote in a vacuum without telling us more than that.

We can probably win by mass claiming Day 3 or Day 4. Keep that in mind when we get there.

I felt that his Day 1 play could be a classic case of scum trying to make themselves look good by disregarding the merits of the leading wagons that would end up flipping town. I saw his strike at Bob as an opportunistic move, as it is hard as scum to pretend to hunt scum by play, but it is easy to point out a scummy role claim. I think it's important to listen to everyone, and he made a good point about Brick's post in relation to Bob's claim. I read Bob's defense and it seemed sincere to me. He could be a good liar and I'd learn my lesson, but right now I read Bob as town. Since he has claimed there is not anything we could gain by pressuring him today and we should move on and investigate other options. If at the end of the day the majority wants to lynch Bob, they can switch their votes back to him and do it.

[Jkaen]

I will respond properly when on a computer and not a phone, but I hate it when we have a solid lead and people suggest we pressure elsewhere. As scum it the easiest thing if you get early pressure to just ride it out and then rely on village adhd to strike out in another direction. If we have a good case (which we do) then see it through.