WW 34--The Slugfest!

[Lewwyn]

So Jowy, now that you've switched off of the Bob train back onto Jkaen, can you explain both why you voted him in the first place, having offered no prior reasoning as to why you'd vote him, and why you then so easily followed Jkaen right-away on his case of the day?

Also don't think you can offer the following quote in a vacuum without telling us more than that.

We can probably win by mass claiming Day 3 or Day 4. Keep that in mind when we get there.

I felt that his Day 1 play could be a classic case of scum trying to make themselves look good by disregarding the merits of the leading wagons that would end up flipping town. I saw his strike at Bob as an opportunistic move, as it is hard as scum to pretend to hunt scum by play, but it is easy to point out a scummy role claim. I think it's important to listen to everyone, and he made a good point about Brick's post in relation to Bob's claim. I read Bob's defense and it seemed sincere to me. He could be a good liar and I'd learn my lesson, but right now I read Bob as town. Since he has claimed there is not anything we could gain by pressuring him today and we should move on and investigate other options. If at the end of the day the majority wants to lynch Bob, they can switch their votes back to him and do it.

Surprisingly... I don't disagree with you. Count me as one who sees Bob as most likely town and telling the truth. I just feel like it fits with MJW's style as a GM. Thus I also think the Bob wagon has scum taking the easy ride. However I think this:

Wow 3 kills, 2 on team mafia but not openly mafia one with a fun role. Vig is most likely but you never know, if Bob is saying the truth there are many ways to get killed in this setup. With 16 players at the start and already 2 out of 3 kills being traitors we might only be looking at ~2 mafia and some hidden supporters.
As for today I'm going to have to go after Bob, if you're not town and no one dares attack you at night by fear of being killed in return you become unstoppable. Sorry, your role makes sense but now that it's revealed it's just too dangerous.[/color]

Is much more suspicious.

I would move my vote to AdrienIer, but Jabbz still hasn't said anything about who he suspects. Basically comes in defends himself and then runs off again without saying anything about any suspicions.

Jabbz?

[Lewwyn]

I will respond properly when on a computer and not a phone, but I hate it when we have a solid lead and people suggest we pressure elsewhere. As scum it the easiest thing if you get early pressure to just ride it out and then rely on village adhd to strike out in another direction. If we have a good case (which we do) then see it through.

Is it a solid lead though? Its a role claim bob made on his own without pressure. It's not like you caught him in a lie or anything.

[Jowy]

Also don't think you can offer the following quote in a vacuum without telling us more than that.

We can probably win by mass claiming Day 3 or Day 4. Keep that in mind when we get there.

Oh yeah, this. Mass claims are really good for town That's when scum will be under the most pressure, when they need to claim their role and how they used it. If it doesn't fit town in the setup, they risk being lynched. If their role use was scummy, they risk being lynched. They can lie about their role or its use, but if they are caught in a lie, they will be lynched. It's gonna narrow down the field for us and make it much easier to find the remaining scum. I don't remember us taking full advantage of mass claims in the past, so I figured I'd encourage everyone to go for it even if I'm dead by then and can't lead the process.

[Jkaen]

I will respond properly when on a computer and not a phone, but I hate it when we have a solid lead and people suggest we pressure elsewhere. As scum it the easiest thing if you get early pressure to just ride it out and then rely on village adhd to strike out in another direction. If we have a good case (which we do) then see it through.

Is it a solid lead though? Its a role claim bob made on his own without pressure. It's not like you caught him in a lie or anything.

No pressure? he survived yesterday via tie break and had no reason to suspect it wouldn't pick up again today

[Jkaen]

So Jowy, now that you've switched off of the Bob train back onto Jkaen, can you explain both why you voted him in the first place, having offered no prior reasoning as to why you'd vote him, and why you then so easily followed Jkaen right-away on his case of the day?

Also don't think you can offer the following quote in a vacuum without telling us more than that.

We can probably win by mass claiming Day 3 or Day 4. Keep that in mind when we get there.

I disagree, I felt during the day that Jowy was doing everything he could to put the Bob lynch into question, he didnt follow me straight on at all. its just when i covered all his objections he grudgingly went onto bob. He then at the earliest opportunity jumped back off bob when he had the choice.

Why are you so scared of voting bob Jowy?

[Jkaen]

Well, predictably I've got a lot of stuff to reply to. Bleh.

The above points I would have suspected Bob to have picked up on, as of his post 309 it seemed he was starting to get heat, and that is a pretty wierd role even for MJW, I am going to say this is scum trying to protect himself from vigilantes.

Oh and Jabbz, I took the 2nd quote you listed (with the blue text) as claiming noobness as well. Unlike Zak though for a person playing their second game, I have no issues with you doing it

Anyway vote squarely on
Bob

I was operating under the assumption that Sunrise was a mafia goon, not a carbon-copy of Rowain's role. That's fairly obvious if you actually read what I wrote previously. My fault for not realizing that "You are a traitor." referred to Sunrise's role (I would have expected "traitor" to be capitalized), and was not just a generally declaration of scumminess on MJW's part. Note that the role is now properly capitalized in the player roster.

I dont buy this, I think you have a pretty good attention to detail from what I have seen on the forum, indeed your post 298 shows you considered him being a copy of Rowain

[Jkaen]

Also additionally in response to Bob's comments, we have had vig's shoot day 1 before, and I covered why i think there is a vig based upon my flavour text comments and acknowledging the possible presence of a scum vig shot.

I see nothing that lifts my suspicion atm

[Jkaen]

Oh and as far as I see nobody has made any case against me yet other than the fact (as did half the players) that i didnt vote based upon a strong tell day 1

[Jowy]

So Jowy, now that you've switched off of the Bob train back onto Jkaen, can you explain both why you voted him in the first place, having offered no prior reasoning as to why you'd vote him, and why you then so easily followed Jkaen right-away on his case of the day?

Also don't think you can offer the following quote in a vacuum without telling us more than that.

We can probably win by mass claiming Day 3 or Day 4. Keep that in mind when we get there.

I disagree, I felt during the day that Jowy was doing everything he could to put the Bob lynch into question, he didnt follow me straight on at all. its just when i covered all his objections he grudgingly went onto bob. He then at the earliest opportunity jumped back off bob when he had the choice.

Why are you so scared of voting bob Jowy?

I think you overvalue the importance of vote placement. We're not playing with a majority lynch here. Votes during a day only serve to highlight your suspicions to make it more clear from whom you expect answers at the current time. I wouldn't think that anyone is scared to vote for someone, as it's not the vote that matters, it's your words supporting it that do.

[Jowy]

Jkaen what are your thoughts on Adrien and Jabbz?