WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[Rowain]

Sure, Rowain. The point was why would scum know or think me SK at this stage in the game?

Your first post did strike at least Ichabod, zak and myself as odd. Good chances that it also triggered by others. As scum knows that you are not scum that doesn't leave too many other options.

[Qgqqqqq]

Gazglum,

Let's put it like this. I consider jailer to be a substantially stronger role than roleblocker. Of our normal roles, I would consider very few to be weaker than jailer - only things with negative utility like lover, or PGO, really. A bunch of the newer ones (hider, tourist, backup doctor) are definitely weaker, but it's difficult to call because I don't have much experience with them - as we see with [can't remember which player] thinking hider is significantly stronger than I did.

Despite that, I will say that the role I got was strong enough that it wasn't something that I needed to weigh up. I would've gone for it regardless of what I've played recently.


I'm going to bed now. See ya in the morning.

[Jowy]

Okay, I think I've gone about this the wrong way. I can't introduce good town habits from outside the forum into the forum and expect everyone to just follow along.
I'll relax on that. I'll adapt back to the RB meta and just use my knowledge to make reads and catch scum.



Unvote

[Lewwyn]

A vote for Qgqqqqq is not a pressure vote at this point. Definitely a lynch vote. Of all the people I think he is most likely scum.

I'm on my phone but I will do a longer post when I am home in a few hours.

Lewwyn, is this coming? You've posted a bit since then, but made no comment on me.

Seems a bit redundant at this point...

[Jkaen]

I think we should start by assuming that we're somewhat good at this game and the six people who all get a ton of suspicion won't all end up being town.

What 6? We have the following people who have made lists, all feature some different people but more than 6, and there are others (i.e. Bob) who have also gotten heat.

roles which I don't really understand that they were discarded and IMO are hurtfull to miss:
•Qgqqqqq - Roleblocker
•Lewwyn - Innocent Child
•Azarius - Vanilla Cop
•Novice - Doctor
•Ichabod - Backup Doctor
•Mattimeo - FBI Agent

from those I go with Mattimeo

As for the role tosses I find odd.

Lewwyn - Innocent Child - Though I do buy the argument that it is a passive role, so assuming his other option wasn't vanilla town or some of the trashier roles, I could understand why he might not like it.

Novice - Doctor -Hell of a role to throw away, especially if you consider yourself good at reading into things, which Novice appears to. What would it take to throw that away, except for maybe the obvious mafia choices.
Twinkletoes89 - Hider - This role just looks fun as hell to me, especially combined with doctors (he obviously wouldn't have expected Novice to get GF and throw away town doc) There are just a lot of opportunities for this role to have significant impact on the game.
Ichabod - Backup Doctor -At least a somewhat questionable role to toss. Has the potential to be pretty impactful late game.

Basically those all are roles that I would want to keep, so I find it suspicious that they would be tossed. The most obviously suspicious one however is Novice

I have to agree with Bob that it is very hard to ignore the people who have discarded powerful roles.

Looking at the list, these roles stick out:

Lewwyn - Innocent Child - That is a valuable person that is able to prove their innocence and clear themselves from suspicion. I may be missing something but that seems valuable in an experienced player's hands.

Novice - Doctor - If you only have villager roles to choose from, you want the village to win and so you'd take the doctor role rather than risk the village not having one. That has to hint at him being either a Serial Killer or Mafia.

Ichabod - Backup Doctor - Similar reasoning as with Novice and this role could be even more powerful if mafia got the doctor early and started taking risks.

Qgqqqqq - Roleblocker - Powerful village role for a guy who's normally village. Got to be something good to turn that down and deny the village their only chance at having a roleblocker. Would need a good explanation to get out of that

Mattimeo - FBI Agent - One of the only roles that could help the village find a Serial Killer. I have little doubt that at least one of them will be in the game so this role seems very useful. Though, in fairness, it does also seem a bit of a dull role.

Azarius - Vanilla Cop - A valuable role and one that would seem to be quite fun to play in terms of it being simple to understand and potentially very useful for the village.

Jowy - Mafia Tracker - To turn down a strong Mafia role suggests that their other choice likely has a village lean. As dtay rightly suggests, its eminently possible that someone could get offered two scum roles, but this probability is inflated because of the number of mafia goon roles. I'd wager it is unlikely to choose to be a less powerful scum role, so I'd say the odds favour him being town.


This is speculation, but given that it is Day One its the closest we have to hard evidence to judge against. Seeing how these people justify their choices will help make things a bit clearer.

In short: scum suspicions based on discard are pretty much me, novice, Qgqqqqq and the people who ditched scum. I do not believe this is worth basing a vote on at this point.

[Rowain]

So after criticizing people for dropping the novice case, you then do the same and jump onto Q?

And by forcing everybody to claim nice and early it means the scum can get about 6 village claims a day in, in order to help them pick their shots.

You do realise that while we are waiting to see if Q will/needs to claim you are allowed to discuss other people?

And still you are voting Qgqqqqq and not discussing anyone else.

Seems a bit redundant at this point...

I was looking forward to your bigger post.

[Rowain]

crosspost with Jkaen

[Mattimeo]

Okay, I think I've gone about this the wrong way. I can't introduce good town habits from outside the forum into the forum and expect everyone to just follow along.

Statements like this clearly indicate that we've been playing too much role madness, or at least power-role heavy, games here recently.

Need some good old fashioned seer, gaoler*, 3 wolf and 8 villager.

*Gaoler rather than Doctor because claiming being an instant win rather than turning it into a difficult mountainous would defeat the entire purpose of the exercise.

[Jowy]

I think we should start by assuming that we're somewhat good at this game and the six people who all get a ton of suspicion won't all end up being town.

What 6? We have the following people who have made lists, all feature some different people but more than 6, and there are others (i.e. Bob) who have also gotten heat.

And by forcing everybody to claim nice and early it means the scum can get about 6 village claims a day in, in order to help them pick their shots.

[Lewwyn]

TT rejecting the hider role sort of fits with my psychological model of him. I also think he'd be liable to pick a scum role, though, if he had the chance.

Wait whats your psychological model of TT?

He values his own presence in the game, at least when he's town. He doesn't trust the rest of the town to get things right after he's gone. So a "suicidal" role might appeal a little less to him.

So basically he likes to live? I chuckled a bit at "values his own presence".
I don't know that I disagree with you. I probably would pass on that role too.

Lewwyn loves playing scum / SK, and I strongly believe he would took them if given the chance. He loves the mind games.
His suspicion of Ichabod is pretty bad IMO (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid518007)
Ichabod's attack on dtay was backtracked to begin with. He included a point regarding his forum personality with comment "maybe it's just how he rolls". So your accusation of him trying to backtrack later doesn't make sense.

Sort of agree with this. It's not a crime to make bad attacks on day 1, but Lewwyn's attack on Ichabod looks a little more "malicious" than Ichabod's attack on dtay. The latter looked more like probing for tells than casting aspersions.

Or I'm thinking out loud.

Meiz the whole idea of probing for tells would mean that you would be a bit more forceful then backtracking the whole time you are probing, no? I usually get suspicious of people who ask too many questions. It's like the questions get you "involved" but then there's no need to actually do anything about it. If you think it was malicious Zak, I'd hate to hear what you'd define any other time I accuse someone of scum. I didn't think I was attacking very harshly.

That said Ichabod is definitely on my radar.