(January 29th, 2015, 05:42)Lewwyn Wrote: Why? I never had one. I went back when I got home and honestly felt like everyone had already said why Qg was suspicious. And I agreed. Would you like me to aggregate everyone's points and then go down a list of why I agree with this that and the other thing? Because it seems pointless and boring to me.
I thought you had a post in mind when you made your promise. More than just about Qgqqqq. Has anything else triggered your scumdar or made you question your stance on Qgqqqq?
Actually, yes.
You know who was the first to vote for Qgqqqqq after Qg wrote his initial post? :
Lynchpocalypse is coming, my friends. It comes for us all in the end, but today? Today it comes for me.
Anyway, yeah I got town/town :/ Not that it matters, for today I get to help the scum in an entirely unique and fascinating way - by becoming the instant topic of the day for them to dump votes on
I'd...rather not share why I rejected roleblocker, specifically. But I will say this: in one of my most recent games (not on this site) I rolled a boosted-jailkeeper (they also got to neighborize the people they jailsd) and honestly it wasn't a role I enjoyed much. Not only was RB a repeat of that - in a game packed with roles - it was a weaker version, and it's one that has significant downsides (I've never been very good with difficult roles, day 1 in that game I jailed our only cop thinking they were scum). So yeah, I chose against it.
Bobchillingworth, you were offered a chance to repeat last game, why wouldn't you take it?
Sorry, Qg, but that's a pretty bad post, too elaborate and all. You are usually one of the first guys to post on the game threads, with jokes and all. This post + that fact + BRick's announcement makes me think you are a wolf.
Qgqq
Ichabod.
Do I agree with Ichabod's idea that Qgqqqq's post was elaborate? Yes. But then again it is Qg.... I don't like that he's following up with "Brick's announcement" as part of his reasoning for why Qg must be scum.
Honestly, though... I just think Qg is scum based on his rather desperate tone. If I'm right then I don't think Ichabod is scum. I don't think scum would coordinate a one-two punch to create deep cover.
UGh even though I thought I had a reason not to suspect Qg it just makes me think another suspect is more village than I thought.
Crossposting with a load. >_>
To elaborate further on this post... it smells like he couldn't come up with any more dirt that might stick to Q, and so he turned to "interaction tells" to strengthen the case. And somehow he came away from that exercise thinking that Ichabod is town because Q is scum. It's crafted to look like some kind of organic thought process, but really it's just circular reasoning, at best.
Agree with Bob on that post of Gazglum's. Also the AdrienIer post.
Jabbz, when you have the time I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on people that aren't wagoning or omgus.
Meiz, I was referring to the fact that Lewwyn had just said that he finds "What do you think about this?" to be a scummy question, and then in the following post you ask for other's takes on something, which is pretty much "what do you think about this." It just seemed funny to me, wasn't sure if it was intentional or not.
Actually, I'm going to go with AdrienIer. Mainly due to the post I pointed out earlier, and the one Bob just highlighted. I've been uncomfortable with how quickly the Qg wagon got filled, but I haven't really felt that strongly about anyone else to this point. I initially voted Qg mostly as a joke as he was likely to pick scum given the chance, but left it there when I didn't like his initial post and follow up explanations.
In response to #259...
Gazglum knows a bit about fishing - but I don't think I see this obvious fishing as something mafia would consider smart, safe day 1 play. I don't agree with his scheme - exact roles make the cabal of who to watch, kill, block etc easier for mafiosi - but I see equally a "throwing ideas into the pond" villager here. No lean either way for me.
BRick's setup with no wolf daytalk must be new? I sat out last few games but haven't heard of this before.
Well that went down with a resounding thump. I just thought after Brick's unintentional 'screw you' to the wolves, that this would be a good opportunity to force some role reveals if we were going to do it. Especially given we have some good players implying very strong roles with their choice anyway.
Interesting how quietly it was received overall though.
Not sure whether to be flattered or annoyed by Molach's insinuations as to my fishing ability.
Bob has roused himself, Q is contributing. I never trust Mattimeo, and know he likes scum from our one game together, but he's not offering me anything to seize on.
I do think that at least one of Novice, Mattimeo, Lewwyn, Novice and Q are likely to be scum based on their throwaways. Novice most likely, but I think he has bought himself a day.
So I'm going Lewwyn.
His interaction with Meiz...
(January 29th, 2015, 06:24)Lewwyn Wrote: I seriously don't see what you're talking about Meiz. In fact it just looks to me like you're twisting my words.
...feels to me like he was trying to pick a fight, which I think is in character for scum Lewwyn as a way of getting activity without content. I'm also getting town vibes from Zak, who is pressuring him.
His feeling that Q is suspicious is ok, and I think his point on Ichabod's probing DTay is a fine one but -really minor-. But he keeps returning to it rather than looking wider. Lewwyn, why haven't you responded to Q's countercase on Jabbz? When pro players aren't looking at teh whole board, it triggers my scumdar.
Here:
(January 29th, 2015, 06:46)Lewwyn Wrote:
(January 29th, 2015, 06:39)Meiz Wrote: Wolf-Ichabod would have no need to try to make his attack less intent on his follow-up, since it was not intent to begin with. As I understand it, he makes a general statement on a wolf behavior, but also thinks it might be in character for dtay. I don't understand at all how his last question for dtay's opinion makes him lean wolf either. So I think you're making this much bigger deal than it actually is.
If you read my earlier post you would recognize I've already moved off Ichabod as a suspect.
But my point at the time and what I was thinking at that time is still exactly how I see it.
"What do you think about this?" is such a wolf question. I don't get how you don't see that. I would use that as a wolf. That's why its a big deal from my perspective.
He is backing away from his suspicion of Ichabod, which is fine, but also using up all the oxygen still talking about him. No further scumhunting.
As for my own feelings on Jabbz, they are that he may be acting a bit scummy, but after his first 2 scum games I would expect him to pick town if offered, which gives me a point in his favour. I would vote Fenn over him if we are going with 'bad vibe' of posts.
(January 29th, 2015, 06:00)AdrienIer Wrote: Wow guys I'm supposed to work not spend an hour catching up on this on my phone !
Q will be away for a day, let's spend that time looking at other people. I'd be looking at Jowy had he not discarded mafia tracker. Could be a way to hide if he drew goon/tracker. He's been changing his mind a lot, making a show of participating while backing off from actually investigating. I got bad vibes from Zak at one point, will try to find where it xas when I get home.
I don't like this post. You say you aren't going to look at someone because of his discard. In your next breath you go on to imply he is acting scummy, and that his discard could be good cover. Why bring this up if you aren't actually considering him? Looking forward to your post about your bad vibe's from Zakalwe as well.
(January 29th, 2015, 16:03)Azarius Wrote: Actually, I'm going to go with AdrienIer. Mainly due to the post I pointed out earlier, and the one Bob just highlighted. I've been uncomfortable with how quickly the Qg wagon got filled, but I haven't really felt that strongly about anyone else to this point. I initially voted Qg mostly as a joke as he was likely to pick scum given the chance, but left it there when I didn't like his initial post and follow up explanations.
In my mind Jowy starts with an advantage because of his "good" discard, but the other points I mention (the good cover part being the least of them) make him lose that advantage. There's also the fact that I had the same vibes about him last game, and he was town there. Basically I'm torn about him, I'll reassess on day 2 if the situation isn't completely changed (it will be of course). I guess I haven't talked enough last game and today, so you can't know I like to present both sides when discussing a topic. And that seems to be considered a scum tell here, bad luck for me.
I won't back down on my Q vote until something better comes up, and my vote was pretty straightforward : Novice looked worst, Q second worst, I said that in my first post. Then Novice claimed cop and I moved to Q. Q's discarded role isn't the strongest but I like it. While Q is entitled to not wanting it and/or having a better alternative I thought his explanation shabby. I'll reread Zakalwe's posts, it'll take a few minutes.
(January 28th, 2015, 12:51)zakalwe Wrote: Fascinating... no need for a random voting phase, we can just get straight down to business.
Meiz and Rowain are missing out on a fun game.
I suspect Novice would rather be a doctor than mafia. He might not discard a SK role, though.
Qgqqqqq, why did you discard the roleblocker?
First post he defends Novice and attacks Q, when Novice hasn't claimed yet.
(January 28th, 2015, 15:38)zakalwe Wrote: If he's town then it's pretty obvious to the mafia that he's a cop. So no real harm in claiming it.
Now we all know that he needs protection and we can delay his lynch until we have some cop results to go with it.
Second post he says it was obvious Novice was a cop, well he could have easily been a vig, or he could even have thought it fun to be the day vig or the one shot gov.
(January 28th, 2015, 15:59)zakalwe Wrote:
(January 28th, 2015, 14:00)Jabbz Wrote: Twinkletoes89 - Hider - This role just looks fun as hell to me, especially combined with doctors (he obviously wouldn't have expected Novice to get GF and throw away town doc) There are just a lot of opportunities for this role to have significant impact on the game.
What does the bolded part mean?
When reading it I thought Jabbz was making an obvious reference to Zak's own post n°12, so unnecessary attack there.
(January 28th, 2015, 17:00)zakalwe Wrote: "I agree that it's pretty terrible. Where did he hint at his actual role being weaker, though?"
He emphasized how he didn't enjoy playing as a roleblocker, instead of labeling it as a weak role.
TT rejecting the hider role sort of fits with my psychological model of him. I also think he'd be liable to pick a scum role, though, if he had the chance.
His analysis of TT is indecisive, and so far this kind of thing is treated like a scum tell on this forum. But I do that all the time so I can't judge.
(January 28th, 2015, 17:05)zakalwe Wrote: For the record, I think that was a helpful post, dtay, and not inherently scummy.
Buddying up with the new guy here.
It's not much but it felt kind of weird at the time. Rowain had similar thoughts in post 123 (or was half joking, probably both).
@Ad: Re: Your first point, Zak defending novice day 1 is no scum tell. At all. Read any other game.
I see your point about mafia godfather - bolded part. Zak brought up the godfather thing first, so no surprise to see it repeated later. Zakalwe has been active and I agree with current vote, so I don't see much of the case.
@Gazglum: I also think Jabbz would pick town if he had the chance, but no indication he had a chance.
@ Jabbz: Thanks for the post. You are still voting Q, how do you feel about that vote/him now? Do you have other suspicious reads?
I also await more from Lewwyn, not much yet. It is day 1, but a day 1 with a lot more to work with than usual.
Right, my busy day is now complete and I have an hour or so before bed so have just had a first scan through the posts I've missed. To be honest it's a mess.
There has been considerable early traction on Qgqqqqq and then (naturally) people started getting cold feet and wanting to consider options in case its an easy set-up and he's being made to be a fallguy.
My gut instinct is that we were right with Qgqqqqq based on just how messy it has got since that point. I get that we need to consider other options and that it is day one, but this feels *too* messy that it is being actively encouraged by scum. I get this feeling a lot when I play werewolf and having been forced to stand back from the discussion and frequently 'catch up' with multiple pages of responses makes me feel more confident in my ability to notice shifts in the 'mood' of the day.
I cannot get over the rejection of being a role blocker, and the fact that the mafia cannot communicate during the day leads me to believe that he was scrambling around for an excuse however he could find it to cover his tracks. I can't explain it much better than it *feels* wrong.
Noone else has stood out far enough for me on my current read through to make me want to vote for them. I originally liked Jowy, then he's started moving targets around quite quickly and that made me more concerned. Novice is too much of a risk for me to take early on, but I'd be interested to revisit his status on the next day.
For now at least, while I have time to reread and see if my feelings change, I'm placing my vote on Qgqqqq
"You want to take my city of Troll%ng? Go ahead and try."
