WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[zakalwe]

Right, my busy day is now complete and I have an hour or so before bed so have just had a first scan through the posts I've missed. To be honest it's a mess.

There has been considerable early traction on Qgqqqqq and then (naturally) people started getting cold feet and wanting to consider options in case its an easy set-up and he's being made to be a fallguy.

My gut instinct is that we were right with Qgqqqqq based on just how messy it has got since that point. I get that we need to consider other options and that it is day one, but this feels *too* messy that it is being actively encouraged by scum. I get this feeling a lot when I play werewolf and having been forced to stand back from the discussion and frequently 'catch up' with multiple pages of responses makes me feel more confident in my ability to notice shifts in the 'mood' of the day.

I cannot get over the rejection of being a role blocker, and the fact that the mafia cannot communicate during the day leads me to believe that he was scrambling around for an excuse however he could find it to cover his tracks. I can't explain it much better than it *feels* wrong.

Noone else has stood out far enough for me on my current read through to make me want to vote for them. I originally liked Jowy, then he's started moving targets around quite quickly and that made me more concerned. Novice is too much of a risk for me to take early on, but I'd be interested to revisit his status on the next day.

For now at least, while I have time to reread and see if my feelings change, I'm placing my vote on Qgqqqq

Maybe it would feel that way if you have a lot of catching up to do, but I don't think this is a messy day, at all. It's a big game, but there are just a few different cases being pushed, so it shouldn't be too much to take in. I disagree with your overall impression that scum is trying to encourage a mess. Without day talking, I also expect them to be slightly more passive and reactive than usual.

How do you feel about Jabbz and the case against him?

[Rowain]

Perhaps because jabbz can claim vanilla town. Q has very few possible claims, a fake claim could be easily disproven.

He might do that and we do have a claime cop and maybe have a watcher or tracker and a claimed vanilla-townie would be hard pressed to explain why he moved around.

Besides there are people who will happily press everyone to get their roles revealed (Jowy ) and several others talked about an All people reveal so I wonder why none of them urged Jabbz to reveal.

BTW none of those in favour of an complete reveal have answered in which order they want the reveal to happen.

[Rowain]

But Mattimeos surprise made me lean 'not scum' on him. So together with absolutely no support to lynch him I decided to move my vote.

Not that informing people why town leans on me are unreliable is in any way sound play, but you do realise that I'd've made an almost identical post if I was aware of the restriction, right?

IMO only when you and novice are both scum and talked about it pre-game. So if one of you turns out to be scum we should lynch the other too.

[AdrienIer]

That being said, the day seems pretty quiet. Not a lot of cases, some people pretty unusually silent... Holy! Zak has the most posts in the game? I thought he was one of the silent ones...

A day where you've participated but people haven't noticed your presence is a good scum day

[Jowy]

Ok that works. Based on my inexperience, I think it would be best if I just operate as a townsman, and don't try to direct any conversation towards anyone specific. Any mistakes I make are likely to be credited to inexperience. I'll just do my best to stay only partially committed to anyone, and only jump on huge mistakes. If you guys have better advice, I'm certainly down to take it.

Jabbz in WW33 mafia QT.

So. Forty plus minutes of trying to parse through this mess has left me with the opinion that I don't read nearly as much into everyone's statement as some of you guys do. I guess I'm just looking for direct contradiction, or poorly constructed logical arguments, and day one doesn't seem to present too many of those.

I am still not overly convinced of TT's argument as to why he dropped the Hider role. The fact that it's his first day back could be used to justify any number of choices/discards, and as such doesn't seem to have a lot of merit. It certainly isn't enough for me to want to vote for him at this point, but it does strike me as suspicious.

I get pretty good vibes from Zak's analysis as a whole. He is active, he is posing a lot of questions, and as someone said earlier, he seems genuinely interested in finding the scum.

Az seems to be getting a bit of a pass here, once the "misunderstanding" about what his role actually entailed. I'm not saying I lean either way on him yet, it is just worth noting that it is occurring.

The reads on a couple of other people partially depend on where I end up falling on the "claiming is good for town" spectrum. I am leaning a bit towards it being useful for those who discarded top roles to claim, as they are likely already targets by scum for doing so, unless they are themselves scum. I'm still stuck a bit though, because as scum knows more power roles, they can plan/plot more effectively. So it's a bit of a tossup.

As for myself, I've reached the understanding that no matter what I do, I appear scummy. My first game, I was told I was "scummy as fuck", which is appropriate as I was actually scum that game. My second game I was also told I was scummy as fuck, which was disappointing, because I was trying to play the first day or two as pure town, and not start working towards town destruction until I had more info. I was trying to balance that with looking really defensive, in hopes of being scanned clean, so that might have screwed it up. This game, I'm 100% town, and trying to find scum, and still looking scummy :/ I guess that's something I'll have to work on.

That being said, I still think Qg looks scummy, and my vote is going to stay there for the time being. It seems that he has agreed to claim if time gets close and he is up for the devilishly designed torture machine that a group of talented engineers can produce with paperclips, rubber bands, and the spare mop in the closet, so that might be where we find out more.

Partially committed reads in this game.

Jabbz voting timeline:
Novice (when novice wagon was at top speed)
no vote (when novice wagon was dying)
Q (when Q wagon was at top speed)

Caught up for the time being. As with the other two day one games, there isn't a lot of definitive information going around yet. What does stand out to me however, is Qg.

It's happening!!!!

[Day one LYNCH! Day one LYNCH! Day one LYNCH!]

Lynchpocalypse is coming, my friends. It comes for us all in the end, but today? Today it comes for me.


Anyway, yeah I got town/town :/ Not that it matters, for today I get to help the scum in an entirely unique and fascinating way - by becoming the instant topic of the day for them to dump votes on

I'd...rather not share why I rejected roleblocker, specifically. But I will say this: in one of my most recent games (not on this site) I rolled a boosted-jailkeeper (they also got to neighborize the people they jailsd) and honestly it wasn't a role I enjoyed much. Not only was RB a repeat of that - in a game packed with roles - it was a weaker version, and it's one that has significant downsides (I've never been very good with difficult roles, day 1 in that game I jailed our only cop thinking they were scum). So yeah, I chose against it.

Bobchillingworth, you were offered a chance to repeat last game, why wouldn't you take it?

This excuse sounds just absolutely terrible to me. It cites some nebulous other site forum game, claims that more roles makes a role blocker weaker, and claims "oh I'm bad, so I didn't want an important role." I don't know Qg all that well, but this seems very off for him.

I think vanilla cop is a good role on this setup, as it helps you eliminate roles. Seems like we have a ton of rehected vanillas, though, so maybe I'm wrong there.

Fenns comment at the start about voting someone for their position in the list just felt really weak- justifying overmuch.

Dtays comment about lynching those who rejected power roles seems quite flawed, really - sure there might be some scum among them, but there's also likely to be the best town roles. I don't think we want to draw those into the open - certainly not this early.

@Fenn, 3 cops if we count the lover.

So let's just not lynch anyone? Right now, dropped roles is the only solid information we have to go on. Saying that it's odd to drop roleblocker, or doctor, and putting pressure and or pushing for a lynch, is completely reasonable at this point. I think you have rapidly reached the point where you need to out yourself like Novice, or face the Engineer Posse. We have the education to build a very effective gallows. Just saying.

Qgqqqqq

That being said, I still think Qg looks scummy, and my vote is going to stay there for the time being. It seems that he has agreed to claim if time gets close and he is up for the devilishly designed torture machine that a group of talented engineers can produce with paperclips, rubber bands, and the spare mop in the closet, so that might be where we find out more.

Jabbz jumps on the guy who's in the most trouble and commits to it this time when the wagon doesn't die like with novice.

Oh, and for the moment no vote. It's likely to stay there for a while, as I am finishing up a paper for class. I may post a bit, but unlikely to change vote until 9-10 pst.

Caught up for the time being. As with the other two day one games, there isn't a lot of definitive information going around yet. What does stand out to me however, is Qg.

Ok. Caught up for the moment. Responses to my posting last night definitely had a different effect than I expected. I have about 2 hours before I have to bail for class, so I'll do my best to respond to everything leveled against me, but I'm not sure I'll get to new analysis until after I get back from class later this afternoon. Feel free to call out anything I missed and I'll do my best to answer, I did log into 6 pages of accusations :P

Just got home, working on that, alphabetically. By the by, what the hell does omgus mean?

Meh got tied up with IRL shit. Won't be able to post until I get home from class around 5ish PST.

Jabbz has made a lot of excuses in this game.

And for fun, this is one from WW35:

Meh, it's late. Maybe my logic is craptastic at the moment, I don't know. I'll do matt's eval in the morning, reread hash's, and read any other comments that appear. Maybe something will jump out at me.

#mehgate

[Jowy]

WW33, not WW35. Referring to the last quote.

My conclusion is that Jabbz looks bad and might be scum. I wish there was a town baseline established though.

[zakalwe]

I agree with Jowy. I'll add that this:

"So. Forty plus minutes of trying to parse through this mess has left me with the opinion that I don't read nearly as much into everyone's statement as some of you guys do. I guess I'm just looking for direct contradiction, or poorly constructed logical arguments, and day one doesn't seem to present too many of those."

doesn't align very well with his over-the-top attack on Q earlier.

[Qgqqqqq]

Back, way too late and way too tired. Still, I'll catch up and respond once I've played my saves.

Since a lot of the discussion concerns me, if people have specific questions (not related to my role) that they want me to address, could they reiterate them? I'm not going to have a lot of time.

[zakalwe]

Also, I'm not actually missing a town baseline all that much. It would have to be an unusually scummy baseline to make a big difference.

[Rowain]

Heh, so just to clarify, despite the variations in the name, the fact that Qg hit 6 before me puts the immediate pressure on him.

BRick a ruling please

Here we have the case that Qgqqqqq reached 6 votes before Jabbz (tally post 229) but later dropped to 4 (Azarius and Ichabod moving off him) and climbed to 6 afterwards (Ichabod + TT). So who will get lynched currently?