WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[AdrienIer]

To be clear, I'm on 6 votes, right? So I get lynched if votes remain static?

No I think the tiebreaker is the last vote made against one of the tied players and this vote was against you. So you're alive for now.

I really didn't want the PGO because new players aren't usually the early target of scum so I had a good chance of killing a friend

[Mattimeo]

You and Jabbz are both on 6, and it's unclear how the tie would be broken.

I thought standing practice for resolving ties was
1. Find the last vote made
2. Pretend that the person making that vote instead cast no vote today
3. If tie resolved lynch. If not, repeat steps 1-3

...unless that was just me assuming that doing things simply and logically is generally a better idea than coming up with arcane processes ripe for rules lawyering.

[Gazglum]

Well, having checked what time the day ends, I can say that I'll be claiming ~8 or more hours before the deadline if I do.

Lynch is 6.5 hours away, right? So are you planning to skip claiming now that Jabbz is neck and neck with you?

I think you should claim. We're reaching the point where some people (like yourself!) might be going offline for the rest of the day.

[Rowain]

That's a complete lie Rowain. I only wanted one person to claim, the one we would otherwise lynch. That's not "everyone".

I read that

What do you suggest we do when we have a few hours left in the day and he finally claims? There might not be time to counterclaim him, and there's definitely no time to start another wagon and get someone else to claim before the deadline. So are we going to lynch someone else without getting a claim first? Maybe a random wagon in the last 5 minutes in old school RB style?

+ that

Thanks Q. For the record I've given up on trying to get people to claim, so do what you want.
I'm just explaining to Bob why I was trying to get claims done, since it's relevant to the discussion because he thinks it's anti-town and I'm scum for suggesting it.

as you wishing to pressure people one by one to get out their roles /find powerroles.

[AdrienIer]

And some people started looking elsewhere but might come back to Q near the end so I think you should claim

[zakalwe]

You and Jabbz are both on 6, and it's unclear how the tie would be broken.

I thought standing practice for resolving ties was
1. Find the last vote made
2. Pretend that the person making that vote instead cast no vote today
3. If tie resolved lynch. If not, repeat steps 1-3

...unless that was just me assuming that doing things simply and logically is generally a better idea than coming up with arcane processes ripe for rules lawyering.

I completely agree that is how ties ought to be resolved. Unfortunately, Brick went with the arcane and ambiguous rule instead.

[Qgqqqqq]

@Qgqqqqq

Why did you say the One shot Paranoid Gun Owner would be a fun role in this setup?

Because it would be. It's not pro-town, really, but it's a fun role to have because of the chaos it adds.

In a setup like this, choosing it would give one autonomy to a big degree. It isn't a pro-town role, but it's a pro-self one - scum get shot, investigaters, anyone. You're invincible to all save the lynch, and whilst you've got nothing protecting you, you can't be incriminated. It's the sort of role I expected to get more show here - not because it's good for town, but because it's a fun role to have in a setup where you choose.

Other than the whole, you know, One Shot aspect of it massively degrading the "invincible to all save the lynch" aspect. And the fact that absolutely none of your supposedly awesome role involves you making any actual decisions - just hoping that the scum try to hit you at night, while the town don't.

Oh, it's one shot?

Again, I wasn't saying it was good for town, just one that I thought would be fun.


@Gazglum, that was a prelude to a claim, not to backing off on a claim. I'm going to try and actually respond to the thread before doing so, however, because I know that everything afterwards is going to be lost.

[Qgqqqqq]

There has been considerable early traction on Qgqqqqq and then (naturally) people started getting cold feet and wanting to consider options in case its an easy set-up and he's being made to be a fallguy.

My gut instinct is that we were right with Qgqqqqq based on just how messy it has got since that point. I get that we need to consider other options and that it is day one, but this feels *too* messy that it is being actively encouraged by scum. I get this feeling a lot when I play werewolf and having been forced to stand back from the discussion and frequently 'catch up' with multiple pages of responses makes me feel more confident in my ability to notice shifts in the 'mood' of the day.

I cannot get over the rejection of being a role blocker, and the fact that the mafia cannot communicate during the day leads me to believe that he was scrambling around for an excuse however he could find it to cover his tracks. I can't explain it much better than it *feels* wrong.

Noone else has stood out far enough for me on my current read through to make me want to vote for them. I originally liked Jowy, then he's started moving targets around quite quickly and that made me more concerned. Novice is too much of a risk for me to take early on, but I'd be interested to revisit his status on the next day.

For now at least, while I have time to reread and see if my feelings change, I'm placing my vote on Qgqqqq

I think you are right, about this, TT. The bolded part is pretty interesting.

I'll change back to Qgqq. I find it strange that people didn't see the same things I've seen about Fenn's post. Anyway, I feel better about not lynching a new guy.

I don't get what you're talking about by "messy" (yes, I get this was TT, but that's the problem with reading backwards). IMO, the first 12 hours or so of the game were far too cut and dried. We had definitive stages - novice up, novice down, Q up - when has that ever happened in mafia? I don't know if that was influence by scum or simply the result of the meta start to this game, but as someone who also reads in big chunks, it felt really weird.

As far as I'm concerned, what has happened since has felt far more natural - more people being argued even if not gaining massive pushes, slow coalescence around the parties most found scummy which eventually leads to the big leads.

I don't get what swung you back here, Ichabod. I get the Fenn thing not taking off, but I don't see anything in TT's post that's good. We have the "messy" thing that I talked about above, and then there's just meta that no-one would ever reject roleblocker (wait, what?), gut, and that scum-me would, for some reason, never consider that I might get heat for losing a role in advance, but instead be left scrambling.

What you bolded wasn't even something that is relevant - it's a general thought, and one I agree with (as my "stages" of posting should make clear). I get voting for me, but I don't get how TT's post made you return - is it just coincidence that the two occurred alongside, and more about leaving Fenn, or have I missed something?

[Qgqqqqq]

Next game just have all votes for me be "Q". I don't understand why counting to 5 is that hard for votes (use whatever otherwise, but votes have a format for a reason), but if it can't be done we might as well make it easier.

[Jowy]

Rowain I'll make a new example, maybe it will help you understand.
Different ways to go about this:

1) Top suspect claims early.
- If claim makes him look town: We just saved him from a miss-lynch and we still have time to figure out who to lynch.
- If claim makes him look scum: We lynch him.

2) Top suspect claims at the last minute.
- We might not have time to counterclaim, in which case we could be saving a scum from being lynched if we move off him.
- We might not have time to find out who everyone thinks is the second most suspicious person. Who do we lynch?
- We might not have time to get the second most suspicious person to claim. Do we lynch him without a claim?

3) Top suspect doesn't claim. We lynch him.
- Good if he's scum, bad if he's town.
- If he was town and his role would have been enough to convince us to save him, it wouldn't matter because we never got that information from him.