WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[AdrienIer]

But fuck it, going to have to claim - it's like 1 here already.

I am a town cop.

Well, that's quite interesting.

I also happen to be a Town Cop. Which brings us to a total of 3, out of the 2 possible.

novice
Didn't like the way he made the claim, and he's been unseaonably quiet since.

Boom

[Rowain]

If I counted right the current stand

6 votes: Lewwyn (Meiz, Jowy, Gazglum, Rowain, AdrienIer, Ichabod)
5 votes: Jabbz (Qgqqqqq, zakalwe, Molach, novice, Fenn, )
4 votes: Qgqqqqq ( Lewwyn, Jabbz, dtay, Twinkletoes89)
1 votes: Gazglum (Bobchillingworth)
1 votes: Bobchillingworth (Mattimeo)
1 votes: Jowy (Jkaen)
1 votes: AdrienIer (Azarius)

I confess that I'm not happy with the vote-parking of Bob, Matt and Jkaen. Especially Matt who placed his vote a long time ago.

[Meiz]

[Jabbz]

This looks like a good place to start for the morning. I'm glad I woke up early though, normally wouldn't be up until much closer to lynch time.

Ok that works. Based on my inexperience, I think it would be best if I just operate as a townsman, and don't try to direct any conversation towards anyone specific. Any mistakes I make are likely to be credited to inexperience. I'll just do my best to stay only partially committed to anyone, and only jump on huge mistakes. If you guys have better advice, I'm certainly down to take it.

Jabbz in WW33 mafia QT.

So. Forty plus minutes of trying to parse through this mess has left me with the opinion that I don't read nearly as much into everyone's statement as some of you guys do. I guess I'm just looking for direct contradiction, or poorly constructed logical arguments, and day one doesn't seem to present too many of those.

I am still not overly convinced of TT's argument as to why he dropped the Hider role. The fact that it's his first day back could be used to justify any number of choices/discards, and as such doesn't seem to have a lot of merit. It certainly isn't enough for me to want to vote for him at this point, but it does strike me as suspicious.

I get pretty good vibes from Zak's analysis as a whole. He is active, he is posing a lot of questions, and as someone said earlier, he seems genuinely interested in finding the scum.

Az seems to be getting a bit of a pass here, once the "misunderstanding" about what his role actually entailed. I'm not saying I lean either way on him yet, it is just worth noting that it is occurring.

The reads on a couple of other people partially depend on where I end up falling on the "claiming is good for town" spectrum. I am leaning a bit towards it being useful for those who discarded top roles to claim, as they are likely already targets by scum for doing so, unless they are themselves scum. I'm still stuck a bit though, because as scum knows more power roles, they can plan/plot more effectively. So it's a bit of a tossup.

As for myself, I've reached the understanding that no matter what I do, I appear scummy. My first game, I was told I was "scummy as fuck", which is appropriate as I was actually scum that game. My second game I was also told I was scummy as fuck, which was disappointing, because I was trying to play the first day or two as pure town, and not start working towards town destruction until I had more info. I was trying to balance that with looking really defensive, in hopes of being scanned clean, so that might have screwed it up. This game, I'm 100% town, and trying to find scum, and still looking scummy :/ I guess that's something I'll have to work on.

That being said, I still think Qg looks scummy, and my vote is going to stay there for the time being. It seems that he has agreed to claim if time gets close and he is up for the devilishly designed torture machine that a group of talented engineers can produce with paperclips, rubber bands, and the spare mop in the closet, so that might be where we find out more.

Partially committed reads in this game.

Jabbz voting timeline:
Novice (when novice wagon was at top speed)
no vote (when novice wagon was dying)
Q (when Q wagon was at top speed)

I was asked what some of my other reads were. I answered. I'm damned if I do damned if I don't here, because if I had stronger cases against people, with nothing to back them up, you would be on me just as much. I put a vote in for Novice when the only information we had was that he had dropped doc, and with most of us not knowing who dropped what would be shown, that was an open invitation to be read as ditching a town power role for a scum role. I, like many other people, did not give him an all clear when he claimed, just a "we will see" which was the appropriate thing to do in the situation. I voted no vote at that point, because I had class shortly, and didn't want to make a halfass claim on someone else at the time. It's worth mentioning that, had I done so at the time, you would then be bitching about me voting for someone with a weak case.

I then voted Q, when I had time to read everyone's posts, and evaluate his claim. The fact that I came on later was a product of A: not understanding how useful his role could be, B: being focused on Novice beforehand, and C: not having time for WW until later in the day. Since that point, up until now when he is claiming cop, and gets some breathing room for the same reason Novice did, I have been on him consistently. If I had changed for anyone else though, you would again be on me for swapping off the train, and using that to justify me being scum.

Caught up for the time being. As with the other two day one games, there isn't a lot of definitive information going around yet. What does stand out to me however, is Qg.

It's happening!!!!

[Day one LYNCH! Day one LYNCH! Day one LYNCH!]

Lynchpocalypse is coming, my friends. It comes for us all in the end, but today? Today it comes for me.


Anyway, yeah I got town/town :/ Not that it matters, for today I get to help the scum in an entirely unique and fascinating way - by becoming the instant topic of the day for them to dump votes on

I'd...rather not share why I rejected roleblocker, specifically. But I will say this: in one of my most recent games (not on this site) I rolled a boosted-jailkeeper (they also got to neighborize the people they jailsd) and honestly it wasn't a role I enjoyed much. Not only was RB a repeat of that - in a game packed with roles - it was a weaker version, and it's one that has significant downsides (I've never been very good with difficult roles, day 1 in that game I jailed our only cop thinking they were scum). So yeah, I chose against it.

Bobchillingworth, you were offered a chance to repeat last game, why wouldn't you take it?

This excuse sounds just absolutely terrible to me. It cites some nebulous other site forum game, claims that more roles makes a role blocker weaker, and claims "oh I'm bad, so I didn't want an important role." I don't know Qg all that well, but this seems very off for him.

I think vanilla cop is a good role on this setup, as it helps you eliminate roles. Seems like we have a ton of rehected vanillas, though, so maybe I'm wrong there.

Fenns comment at the start about voting someone for their position in the list just felt really weak- justifying overmuch.

Dtays comment about lynching those who rejected power roles seems quite flawed, really - sure there might be some scum among them, but there's also likely to be the best town roles. I don't think we want to draw those into the open - certainly not this early.

@Fenn, 3 cops if we count the lover.

So let's just not lynch anyone? Right now, dropped roles is the only solid information we have to go on. Saying that it's odd to drop roleblocker, or doctor, and putting pressure and or pushing for a lynch, is completely reasonable at this point. I think you have rapidly reached the point where you need to out yourself like Novice, or face the Engineer Posse. We have the education to build a very effective gallows. Just saying.

Qgqqqqq

That being said, I still think Qg looks scummy, and my vote is going to stay there for the time being. It seems that he has agreed to claim if time gets close and he is up for the devilishly designed torture machine that a group of talented engineers can produce with paperclips, rubber bands, and the spare mop in the closet, so that might be where we find out more.

Jabbz jumps on the guy who's in the most trouble and commits to it this time when the wagon doesn't die like with novice.

I already addressed this above. Had Qg stated he was cop earlier, I would have jumped off him earlier. Given that we already had one person claiming cop, I still don't understand why he took so long to admit it, but whatever. Yes at this point I'll be off Qg, because it's the right thing to do for the town. Whether or not I get off of him at this point however, you are going to read it as scummy.

Oh, and for the moment no vote. It's likely to stay there for a while, as I am finishing up a paper for class. I may post a bit, but unlikely to change vote until 9-10 pst.

Caught up for the time being. As with the other two day one games, there isn't a lot of definitive information going around yet. What does stand out to me however, is Qg.

Ok. Caught up for the moment. Responses to my posting last night definitely had a different effect than I expected. I have about 2 hours before I have to bail for class, so I'll do my best to respond to everything leveled against me, but I'm not sure I'll get to new analysis until after I get back from class later this afternoon. Feel free to call out anything I missed and I'll do my best to answer, I did log into 6 pages of accusations :P

Just got home, working on that, alphabetically. By the by, what the hell does omgus mean?

Meh got tied up with IRL shit. Won't be able to post until I get home from class around 5ish PST.

Jabbz has made a lot of excuses in this game.

Two words: Grad School

And for fun, this is one from WW35:

Meh, it's late. Maybe my logic is craptastic at the moment, I don't know. I'll do matt's eval in the morning, reread hash's, and read any other comments that appear. Maybe something will jump out at me.

#mehgate

Meh

WW33, not WW35. Referring to the last quote.

My conclusion is that Jabbz looks bad and might be scum. I wish there was a town baseline established though.

Pretty sure I addressed everything. If you're scum you definitely won't accept any of it. If you're town, you might not either. Regardless, I had to respond

I agree with Jowy. I'll add that this:

"So. Forty plus minutes of trying to parse through this mess has left me with the opinion that I don't read nearly as much into everyone's statement as some of you guys do. I guess I'm just looking for direct contradiction, or poorly constructed logical arguments, and day one doesn't seem to present too many of those."

doesn't align very well with his over-the-top attack on Q earlier.

I had a solid basis for my arguments on Qg, primarily that he had dropped a powerful pro town role.

[Mattimeo]

If I counted right the current stand

6 votes: Lewwyn (Meiz, Jowy, Gazglum, Rowain, AdrienIer, Ichabod)
5 votes: Jabbz (Qgqqqqq, zakalwe, Molach, novice, Fenn, )
4 votes: Qgqqqqq ( Lewwyn, Jabbz, dtay, Twinkletoes89)
1 votes: Gazglum (Bobchillingworth)
1 votes: Bobchillingworth (Mattimeo)
1 votes: Jowy (Jkaen)
1 votes: AdrienIer (Azarius)

I confess that I'm not happy with the vote-parking of Bob, Matt and Jkaen. Especially Matt who placed his vote a long time ago.

Nice cross-post you have there

[Rowain]

And another nice crosspost

So scratch the tally.

[Ichabod]

Especially Matt who placed his vote a long time ago.

Rowain trying to incriminate the town cop!!

[Jowy]

But fuck it, going to have to claim - it's like 1 here already.

I am a town cop.

Well, that's quite interesting.

I also happen to be a Town Cop. Which brings us to a total of 3, out of the 2 possible.

novice
Didn't like the way he made the claim, and he's been unseaonably quiet since.

Now, would Mattimeo be the kind of person to fake counter claim cop to get two cops killed?

Novice

[AdrienIer]

Ditching FBI to be a cop isn't unreasonable. Q would have taken a huge risk by lying. So novice ?

[Jabbz]

Not sure exactly what you mean, Q, but I think his scum buddies would want to see how the town reacted to his defense before committing one way or the other. The case against him has been furiously ignored by several players.

Ok, I feel that is a fair poke. Early on I discounted Jabbz because I thought (and think) that he would have picked town over scum, and the likelihood of him having been offered scum/scum wasn't high enough to make him a good suspect for Day 1. But as a few of the more statistics minded people have pointed out, that's not how probability really works, and he's just as likely to have been offered scum as his second choice as anybody else was.

So rereading his posts, yes I think Jabbz comes off scummy, and I take back what I said about putting Fenn ahead of him on vibes (though will get back to you on that Fenn). After a promise to give us his thoughts, his main summation post is really bad.

That being said, I'm going to reread all the posts I skimmed this morning, and see where else I need to place arguments. By all means, let me know if this is insufficient.

So. Forty plus minutes of trying to parse through this mess has left me with the opinion that I don't read nearly as much into everyone's statement as some of you guys do. I guess I'm just looking for direct contradiction, or poorly constructed logical arguments, and day one doesn't seem to present too many of those.

I am still not overly convinced of TT's argument as to why he dropped the Hider role. The fact that it's his first day back could be used to justify any number of choices/discards, and as such doesn't seem to have a lot of merit. It certainly isn't enough for me to want to vote for him at this point, but it does strike me as suspicious.

-TT suspicious but I'm not going to vote him

Not surprising given that I find Qg at this point to be a far bigger threat to the town than TT.

I get pretty good vibes from Zak's analysis as a whole. He is active, he is posing a lot of questions, and as someone said earlier, he seems genuinely interested in finding the scum.

- Zak is good

Az seems to be getting a bit of a pass here, once the "misunderstanding" about what his role actually entailed. I'm not saying I lean either way on him yet, it is just worth noting that it is occurring.

- Az is suspicious but maybe he isn’t

Actually this was intended to just be more of a poke at Az for calling me out, than any real doubt about him. He is the one that told me I was "scummy as fuck" the last two games, so I'm having fun with him.

The reads on a couple of other people partially depend on where I end up falling on the "claiming is good for town" spectrum. I am leaning a bit towards it being useful for those who discarded top roles to claim, as they are likely already targets by scum for doing so, unless they are themselves scum. I'm still stuck a bit though, because as scum knows more power roles, they can plan/plot more effectively. So it's a bit of a tossup.

- Claiming is good but maybe it isn’t

How dare I not have come to a conclusion on this issue! No seriously though, I'm still not 100% sure on this, and there are people advocating both stances, so it's obviously not a simple, clear cut and dried issue.

As for myself, I've reached the understanding that no matter what I do, I appear scummy. My first game, I was told I was "scummy as fuck", which is appropriate as I was actually scum that game. My second game I was also told I was scummy as fuck, which was disappointing, because I was trying to play the first day or two as pure town, and not start working towards town destruction until I had more info. I was trying to balance that with looking really defensive, in hopes of being scanned clean, so that might have screwed it up. This game, I'm 100% town, and trying to find scum, and still looking scummy :/ I guess that's something I'll have to work on.

- I am town

I'm glad you caught that, I was worried I was being too subtle.

That being said, I still think Qg looks scummy, and my vote is going to stay there for the time being. It seems that he has agreed to claim if time gets close and he is up for the devilishly designed torture machine that a group of talented engineers can produce with paperclips, rubber bands, and the spare mop in the closet, so that might be where we find out more.

-Voting Q, because he still looks scummy

So yes, Jabbz I would say that was insufficient. If you do find out more from the paperclip torture on Q, and decided he was not a good lynch today afterall, is there somebody else you would vote as second choice?

A: If what I posted here, and in my response to Jowy in my last post isn't enough for you, I'm not sure what will be. B: The paperclip torture was my proposed lynch method for Q. Since I hold the patent on it, I'm contemplating holding it in abeyance for Q in case he turns out to be lieing about being a cop. If so, I'll have to design something else for tonight's lynch. It's ok, I'm good at working under a deadline. (Translation, I'll wiki medieval torture methods and claim it's my own idea.) C: As far as a second vote, I think TT still looks tempting. Despite that however, since I know I'm town, and I need to preserve my own life so I can keep working on finding the sycophants, I pretty much have to vote Lewwyn.