WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[Jkaen]

Ok, since he has the least posts I will go for Bob first:

but I'm actually in favor of restarting to spare the poor people who, rightly or wrongly, are now going to get heat for discarding key village roles.

... That said, I'm voting novice because, if we're playing on, I can't just disregard him disposing of such an important role. Yeah, he could be the Cop, but odds are much better that he's some flavor of scum.

Lewwyn might be a Mason or something. Since IIRC there are no scum Masons, any 2+ declared Masons are very likely village, and anyone whose publically announced Mason buddy dies are fully confirmed.

Was in favour of restarting the game, because it screwed over his scum mates Novice and Lewwyn? (-)

Votes for Novice based upon being a cop reveal (more on this later)

Suggests Lewwyn could be Mason, because through convoluted means it could clear a single villager, even though Lewwyn's role does the same thing much more neatly. (-)

I suppose we could leave him alone for a day though. If he's actually a village Cop there's a good chance he'll die anyway, and if he doesn't we can either lynch him day 2 or he might be able to provide a useful scan result if he isn't lying. That said, there isn't anyone else really jumping out at me as being particularly scummy atm.

No starts to back off Novice on the let the cop prove himself argument (which i agree with, but counters his earlier post) (-)

I'm wondering why the Q wagon got off the ground so fast compared to Novice wagon. Roleblocker really isn't that strong of a role, not even close to Doctor. Should it not be natural to vote for the more suspicious discard? Are townies this afraid of lynching a good player.. or did the Q wagon ramp up so fast because he's town?

The bolded part is the right question to ask, and it makes me really suspicious of the bandwagon on Qg.

But then you went and voted for Qg anyway (albeit later retracted after you got heat), and advocated revealing people's roles piecemeal on penalty of death, which is an awful, anti-village strategy. So, Jowy.

Like I noted previously, I'm fine with waiting a day on novice.

Here he agrees with my read of Jowy being odd (+)
and continues to back off Novice (-)

In other words, I don't think scum gain that much from making all of those guys claim before lynch, and I think the town does gain more than we lose. If we were going to make them claim at all, then before Night 1 is best.

Disagrees with a mass reveal, which i agree with, but reading this now was it a worry about 2 more cops stepping forward (+/-)

The only reason why Q would want to keep his role secret is if he's doctor, he'd know that he's the only one in the game due to Novice and Ichabod dropping the other two, so he becomes unique and all-important.

As has been noted, Qg could also be a jailer. Or he could be a Mason, Masons being unusually strong in this game. Or a mutlishot Vig. Point is, there are number of options, and you're obviously fishing. Most of your recent posts are fishy as well. It's like a scummy seafood buffet.

Agree that there were people fishing too much about role reveals (+)

I'm not incredibly happy about all of the cop reveals. Like, if only one of them is a cop and we've caught two scum, that's a great trade! But if one is scum and two are cops, we'd better hope we still have a doctor (and that they don't have a strongman).

* I'm going back to my initial target, novice. He's suspiciously quiet and role-revealed ultra-early, for someone who supposedly has such a key village role. Shouldn't an actual cop at least try to leave some ambiguity as to their exact role, unless forced to reveal by an otherwise inevitable lynch? Unless he has little fear of being night-killed, and just wanted to slip through the day while setting up a village power role mislynch...

This I don't like at all, he has been posting through the day about letting the cop claimer prove himself, then when it seems novice is doomed immediately forgets that principal and hops on (--)

I wouldn't give enormous village credit to anyone who jumped on novice after Mattimeo revealed & cast his vote, which in this case is all of us. Novice at that point must have appeared to the scum to be a dead man walking, who (possibly) already achieved a major objective in getting *two* actual Cops to reveal themselves, and whose greatest remaining utility to their faction would be being thrown under a bus.

He agrees himself that it was safe to jump onto Novice as he was a dead man

To further that train of thought, I think the D2 hunt should start with the non-Mattimeo people who pitched a fit when novice initially picked up votes. The people who were happy to ignore novice and pile on Qg instead, up until Mattimeo made those votes untenable.

This is then countered by saying we should vote for people who ignored Novice (-)

Voting for Twinkletoes89.

Toward the end of D1, after Mattimeo's reveal he posted:

I'm not a fan of lynching possible cops on Day One as it's a very risky gambit, so I am backing off Qgqqqqq for now but I'm not sure I buy his claim.

Right, so after Mattimeo's claim throws novice into some seriously hot water (he has just shot up from 0 to 6 votes on him in a couple hours) TT decides that, despite having had his vote parked on Qg for over half a day, he suddenly cannot abide the possibility of mislynching a cop, and so he votes for Jabbz, the only person with enough votes at that point to possibly hang instead of novice.

I don't buy the timing at all. Why vote for Qg in the first place (and stay on him for a while) if there was never any actual conviction behind it? Why balk at voting for cop-claimed novice, who is now in trouble, even though you were going after Qg for having the exact same role? It doesn't jive.

This however seems like a decent argument to hunt, except it is killed by zak in the next post

No, you're voting for TT because he was happy to lynch one claimed cop but then suddenly decided that all cops should live. Except TT has already refuted that argument, pointing out that he was offline from before Q's claim and until he voted for Jabbz.

So why are you voting for TT, again?

It's a tough call to make. If TT is scum, then he has every reason to claim that he was offline at the time, regardless of what the situation really was. If he's telling the truth, then I agree there isn't much more reason to vote for him than most other people.

I can buy that he simply wasn't around, even though it was a long period of time. I haven't been particularly active (or available) either.

Hence he backs off TT,and switches to Molach

I'm going to switch to Molach, who made a fairly good voting history-based case against himself in post #621, which seems to have oddly subsequently gone ignored. He's certainly as bad as TT in that regard, and he doesn't have as convincing an excuse.

His argument that Jabbz is suspicious for having never been mentioned by Lewwyn is silly as well; I doubt most of us have mentioned every other player. I believe this is my first post naming Molach in any capacity.

I agree the 2nd paragraph is rubbish, but not wanted to vote for a revealed cop is what Bob was arguing most of day 1, and what I agree with too. Plus as bob mentioned people shouldnt be getting benefit for the novice jump at the end as he was dead after the mattimeo reveal.

[Meiz]

Did you even read my post at all? My primary reason for voting Molach is his voting record, which has miraculously gone otherwise unexamined here.

How does that relate to my argument? I'm saying part 2 of your attack against Molach was bad & seems fake, you counter by saying your part 1 was the primary reason. It doesn't invalidate my argument at all.

[Jkaen]

Note I went into the analysis thinking Bob had a bad day 1 and picked up day 2, seems this isnt really the case

[Jowy]

Go bother "Danger Zone" Jowy if you want to attack people for voting with minimal reasoning.

I only need minimal reasoning to catch you #sass

I think you saw novice as a dead man (just like he saw himself) and you called him scum with great confidence to get town cred when he flips. Then you backtracked when it looked like he'd be fine, then you jumped back on when he was going down.

It's not complicated.

[Jowy]

Jowy, when you wake up, could you provide your reasoning for your town reads on me, AdrienIer and Gazglum?

If it becomes relevant yeah. Do you think one of you three is scum?

[zakalwe]

Zak asking Adrien for permission to vote for me is cute. Him attacking anyone who dares post anything in my defense is scummy and an obvious attempt to railroad a bandwagon lynch based on retroactive bad vibes and contradictory accusations regarding my D1 play ("Being against role-claiming is terrible village play, so Bob must be scum! And making a case against novice so early was supernaturally good village play, so Bob must have been using insider scum knowledge!")

I didn't ask AdrienIer for permission. I was interested in getting a wagon going on you, AdrienIer said he was looking for somewhere to put his vote, so I took the opportunity to get a better read on him in the process. Seems like you want to discredit me here but can't find the courage to engage me head-on. Quite similar to how Lewwyn acted on D1, in fact.

Your play on D1 was not supernaturally good village play, it was unnaturally strange village play. Why would you want to lynch a claimed cop when there were no counter claims? Also, when the counter claims did surface, you felt the need to write a paragraph about each of them and weigh up which one was more likely to be true. That seems superfluous, if you originally wanted to lynch Novice even *without* any counterclaims.

As for TT, I didn't know he was offline during the period I found suspicious because I don't follow him around and survey his sleeping patterns. Behold how I stopped voting for him after this was explained.

You didn't stop voting for him. TT explained the flaw in your argument right away:

Bob, the timing has a very simple explanation if you care to look at my post times.

My post prior to voting for Jabbz was at around midnight my time after a long day away from the thread as I had made clear previously. Q made his claim between that post and my next one.

Read my posts, I have always had a strong conviction for suspecting Q and I made that very clear. I only backed off him after his claim as I was not prepared to take the risk and was waiting for more evidence to reassess. You are mistaken to say that I ever went after Q after he claimed, it was only before then that I did.

I would not believe you would make such an obvious mistake when claiming something like this, but you have.

You then kept discussing the hider role in a couple of posts, and you concluded with this:

I understand that, and I'm not voting for you because you discarded the role.

But you did not move your vote.

So basically, TT immediately refuted your argument, but you just ignored that. (And he ignored your ignorance, oddly.)

[zakalwe]

Disagrees with a mass reveal, which i agree with, but reading this now was it a worry about 2 more cops stepping forward (+/-)

I believe this is also what AdrienIer was getting at when he talked about Bob protecting Novice.

[AdrienIer]

@Bob your first post is so aweful I almost considered it too aweful to be scummy. You would expect a post like that from a cop that has just looked into these players, you're not a supernatural being are you ?
Your arguments for lynching cop-novice feel wrong in context, and your arguments today aren't much better.

[AdrienIer]

Disagrees with a mass reveal, which i agree with, but reading this now was it a worry about 2 more cops stepping forward (+/-)

I believe this is also what AdrienIer was getting at when he talked about Bob protecting Novice.

Yes

[Jowy]

Your play on D1 was not supernaturally good village play, it was unnaturally strange village play. Why would you want to lynch a claimed cop when there were no counter claims? Also, when the counter claims did surface, you felt the need to write a paragraph about each of them and weigh up which one was more likely to be true. That seems superfluous, if you originally wanted to lynch Novice even *without* any counterclaims.

I think Bob lacks my (over)confidence though and wouldn't want to lynch the claimed cop before a counter claim