WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[Meiz]

Also the game we played scum together, he was purposely setting up villagers to be seen as his scum partners. I'm not sure if that's the case here, but it's something worth knowing about his play style.

[Gazglum]

Also the game we played scum together, he was purposely setting up villagers to be seen as his scum partners..

That's cold even for Keyser Soze.

[zakalwe]

I also feel a little more confident about my scum read on Bob. The case against him is more concrete. Both of them are good lynches in my book, though.

[Twinkletoes89]

Twinkletoes, I've liked Rowain's posts and think he's been pretty town like. I also don't think he's going to hang today, and he withstands pressure like a titanium submarine. Do you have a second preference vote at the moment?

I have been impressed with his posts since I voted for him and they have given off a town lean. I have no more desire to vote for him.

I'm really starting to dislike dtay and his explicit admissions of voting on a mainlyk defensive basis. Even when we are busy, it's important to at least have a case to back up our vote. But twice now he has pretty much piggybacked on other players posts as his reasoning. This hints to me of trying to ensure a cover story where someone else is more to blame. When others are calling him out to make more definitive posts and stick his neck out a bit, he still hasn't.

I'm still not convinced by the bob train. He's still acting like normal in my eyes and still contributing. He hung around on me for too long after I refuted his argument, but I'm not prepared to hang him on that alone. I think he is a prime target for scanning or more of a wait and see approach.

So I'm voting for dtay

[zakalwe]

Tally as of post 773:

6 votes: Bob (Jowy, AdrienIer, zakalwe, Meiz, Jkaen, dtay)
3 votes: dtay (Ichabod, Fenn, Qgqqqqq)
2 votes: Jabbz (Molach, Gazglum)
2 votes: Twinkletoes89 (Jabbz, Azarius)
1 votes: Rowain (Twinkletoes89)
1 votes: Molach (Bobchillingworth)

Voting history:

Twinkletoes

Jabbz

Jkaen

Jkaen

Twinkletoes89

Jkaen

Dtay

Twinkletoes89

Twinkletoes89

Twinkletoes89

Jkaen

Jowy

Dtay

Jabbz

DTay

dtay

dtay

twinkletoes

Rowain

Molach

Bob

Bob

Bob

Dtay

Bob

Bob

bob

Jabbz

[Jkaen]

To address the discussion on my rejected role - I didn't really understand how it might be useful. I saw it as a vehicle to clear people if I'm lucky or cause confusion if I'm not. To get most use out of it, I should use it often early to try and get people cleared, but that also increases the odds of a cock-up and dying without finding out enough. It was a risky choice and given its my first game back, I didn't want to leave my whole game up to chance.

Azarius - Vanilla Cop - A valuable role and one that would seem to be quite fun to play in terms of it being simple to understand and potentially very useful for the village.

Seems odd to understand the power of vanilla cop in this game, but not get hider.

There has been considerable early traction on Qgqqqqq and then (naturally) people started getting cold feet and wanting to consider options in case its an easy set-up and he's being made to be a fallguy.

My gut instinct is that we were right with Qgqqqqq based on just how messy it has got since that point. I get that we need to consider other options and that it is day one, but this feels *too* messy that it is being actively encouraged by scum. I get this feeling a lot when I play werewolf and having been forced to stand back from the discussion and frequently 'catch up' with multiple pages of responses makes me feel more confident in my ability to notice shifts in the 'mood' of the day.

I cannot get over the rejection of being a role blocker, and the fact that the mafia cannot communicate during the day leads me to believe that he was scrambling around for an excuse however he could find it to cover his tracks. I can't explain it much better than it *feels* wrong.

For now at least, while I have time to reread and see if my feelings change, I'm placing my vote on Qgqqqq

Vote placed on Q, but the language seems very hesitant, so he has an excuse of not being sure when he turned village?

Right, another re-read and here are some more thoughts on what I picked up this time.

Town Reads

Fenn & Dtay - They feel pretty townish to me right now. I think they are, on the whole, playing a game so far that is trying to help enlighten the village and provide useful information. I've found myself content with their contributions.

Bob - This feels so much like what I remember bob to be like. Its a gut feel but I trust it because it feels familiar and natural.

Scum Reads

Qgqqqqq - On this reread my feelings have not changed at all. His early posts trying to justify dropping the roleblocker feel *too* desperate and I personally don't like the delayed reveal. The way it is set up, he will be revealing at close to the last possible minute, leaving little time to counter it and corral the votes. It behooves him better to buy time while people are having a fish around and hope someone else trips up or makes the vote close. I know early reveals aren't optimal, but I think that this would have been more appropriate.

Lewwyn - This post in particular stood out to me and really confused me

A vote for Qgqqqqq is not a pressure vote at this point. Definitely a lynch vote. Of all the people I think he is most likely scum.

I'm on my phone but I will do a longer post when I am home in a few hours.

Lewwyn, is this coming? You've posted a bit since then, but made no comment on me.

Seems a bit redundant at this point...

That strikes me as distinctly un-village and I'm not sure I buy his explanation of 'everything had already been said'. Why not contribute to the discussion and give his thoughts when he had declared that Qgqqqqq was "most likely scum"? It strikes an almost defeatist tone and this is on Day One. Feels out of place.

Ichabod & Mattimeo - Their proposals that someone rejecting a strong village role is more likely to demonstrate that they took a more powerful village role seems contrary to the odds in my opinion. Qgqqqqq is someone who would benefit from a smokescreen like that, but then it is almost *too* obvious a defence that it would almost be suicidal for a mafia person to do if Qgqqqqq turn out scum. But it does seem conveniently timed and without a private thread to co-ordinate, maybe it was the best they could do?

I also really disagree with and dislike Ichabod's declaration in Post #243 that Fenn was "So wolfy its almost howling at the moon". I don't know enough about Ichabod's style to know if this kind of exaggeration is typical, but I do not like it. That, combined with his rejection of a decent town role, makes me very wary of him.

Matt has contributed a lot more than normal. It sticks out to me but not enough either way for me to get a positive read. I hope he keeps it up though, as either way it is beneficial to the village in the long run.

So putting the tinfoil hat on, assuming TT is scum then its normal to add in a mix of villagers and scum into these tables. As village we have the other 2 with lots of attention as scum, and Fenn who i dont remember much from.

As scum we have Q (village leaning atm), Lewwyn (scum) then fairly weak arguments on Ichabod (village leaning atm) and Mattimeo (village)

Hence I think there is a good chance that if TT is scum then one of the others up today are too.

Ichabod & Mattimeo - Their proposals that someone rejecting a strong village role is more likely to demonstrate that they took a more powerful village role seems contrary to the odds in my opinion.

Yes. That's the entire fucking point. You're going to get so much flak from ditching a stong town role that it's basically suicide to do so. Thus, if you have any choice in the matter (say, your other role was scum, rather than also strong town) you'd ditch the scum in a heartbeat just so that you're not near the top of the suspicion list every single damn day.

Numerical odds mean jack shit when you're making informed decisions based on how other people are going to respond

In another game I'd fully agreed with the point you made, but not this one.

I see your point but you are ignoring the fact that it's super likely that multiple players didn't know that Brick would reveal exactly which one they dropped - Hence his rule clarification. This would also likely mean that at least one of them has something to hide being SK or Mafia.

Thus the odds don't mean completely jack shit in all cases and I'm confused as to why you didn't see that yourself.

I do agree with TT here on this point though.

I'm not a fan of lynching possible cops on Day One as it's a very risky gambit, so I am backing off Qgqqqqq for now but I'm not sure I buy his claim.

Novice's claim is weaker and his relative absence has been conspicuous for someone I remember as being an active villager.

Jowy summed up the case on Jabbz pretty well, though I have to say that if he hadn't made that post,I doubt that I would've noticed Jabbz enough to vote for him.

Out of those three, I'm voting for Jabbz as I don't want to risk a power role dying early when they can easily be checked or proven overnight.

Seems a bit lazy to push off the prove onto Jowy, but agree with the leaving of cops alone.


I have to leave it part done atm, will try to finish off later, but I feel that if TT is scum there is a good chance one of the other 2 are as well, if TT isnt scum, based on the reads on the others I still think there is a good chance one of them is scum.

Hence lynching TT i dont think tells us as much as lynching the scummier (up to where I have read) Bob

[zakalwe]

Tally as of post 776:

6 votes: Bob (Jowy, AdrienIer, zakalwe, Meiz, Jkaen, dtay)
4 votes: dtay (Ichabod, Fenn, Qgqqqqq, Twinkletoes89)
2 votes: Jabbz (Molach, Gazglum)
2 votes: Twinkletoes89 (Jabbz, Azarius)
1 votes: Molach (Bobchillingworth)

Voting history:

Twinkletoes

Jabbz

Jkaen

Jkaen

Twinkletoes89

Jkaen

Dtay

Twinkletoes89

Twinkletoes89

Twinkletoes89

Jkaen

Jowy

Dtay

Jabbz

DTay

dtay

dtay

twinkletoes

Rowain

Molach

Bob

Bob

Bob

Dtay

Bob

Bob

bob

Jabbz

dtay

[Gazglum]

Seems odd to understand the power of vanilla cop in this game, but not get hider.

That's a good point. Twinkletoes professed ignorance on hider I am finding the least convincing part of his posts.

I have to leave it part done atm, will try to finish off later, but I feel that if TT is scum there is a good chance one of the other 2 are as well, if TT isnt scum, based on the reads on the others I still think there is a good chance one of them is scum.

Hence lynching TT i dont think tells us as much as lynching the scummier (up to where I have read) Bob

Who are you counting as 'the other 2'? Bob and Dtay?

[Jkaen]

Sorry yes Bob and Dtay who along with Fenn formed his villager list.

[Meiz]

Regarding Jabbz.

When the votes are:

6 votes: Lewwyn (Meiz, Jowy, Gazglum, Rowain, AdrienIer, Ichabod)
5 votes: Jabbz (Qgqqqqq, zakalwe, Molach, novice, Fenn, )
4 votes: Qgqqqqq ( Lewwyn, Jabbz, dtay, Twinkletoes89)
1 votes: Gazglum (Bobchillingworth)
1 votes: Bobchillingworth (Mattimeo)
1 votes: Jowy (Jkaen)
1 votes: AdrienIer (Azarius)

He posts: "As far as a second vote, I think TT still looks tempting. Despite that however, since I know I'm town, and I need to preserve my own life so I can keep working on finding the sycophants, I pretty much have to vote Lewwyn."
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid518454

So basically instead of waiting and seeing, he is partially locking his vote on mafia GF. I think he would have kept his options more open as Lewwyn's scum partner.

Then he notices Matt's claim and votes novice with good reasoning, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid518457

It could be bussing, but I don't think it is.