WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[zakalwe]

Well, it's not like we've been on Bob all day long. I think he had 0 votes 18 hours ago.

[Rowain]

I want to hear why jowy would like to kill Azarius.

[Gazglum]

Well, it's not like we've been on Bob all day long. I think he had 0 votes 18 hours ago.

Zak, do you think Twinkletoes should claim?

[Ichabod]

Finally back at a PC, I don't like browsing with my cell phone.

I know you want to push me to reveal, I can save you time by saying that I will not. I do not see the need right now and I don't understand why you push me for my role yet give other suspects a free pass?

Bob, Dtay or Jabbz can all just say 'I am vanilla town' and I would have no evidence to doubt them. You have to claim a power role, because I don't believe you would think hider so bad you would drop it for vanilla. And that gives us a chance to catch you out.

There's a difference between something 'going without saying' and it not actually being said. I do acknowledge that you might have dumped it for a role that you now think is worse, so you are embarressed, but if you don't say I don't have reason to assume that.

Agreed, nice post by Gaz.

I prefer to lynch dtay or TT over Bob. Reading the votes, I don't think TT can be lynched right now over bob. So, I'm sticking with dtay.

Rowain, you are still not voting.

I'll be around for the next half hour, than I'll have to head off and won't be able to change votes.

[Rowain]

I prefer to lynch dtay or TT over Bob. Reading the votes, I don't think TT can be lynched right now over bob. So, I'm sticking with dtay.

Would you really prefer TT over dtay or do you think both equally scummy.

[Gazglum]

Dammit, I think Twinkletoes is the sycophant and the lack of movement right now is because his comrades in sycophancy are happy to see Bob get pink slipped. Twinkletoes tried to swing the vote off Novice Day 1, and since then has chosen to martyr himself about hider instead of scumhunt. Now he's voting for Dtay for basically the same reasons he gave him a town lean before.

Zak, why do we think you're not selling us all out to management again?

[AdrienIer]

A defense consisting of 1 (long) post is a bit disappointing.
Bob deserves a chance to defend himself but I'd like to see more of him. Well we have one post of defense :

Yeah, but it's not really unexpected. Bob feels like a guy that plays werewolf but doesn't really like to play the way we do here. In that sense, I feel that he spends not that much time with the game after it started, which leads to "lazy" play, using meta and stuff. So, i'd say it's a bit in character.

100% correct.


The case against me is nonsensical. I don't even understand what Adrien's argument for lynching me is based upon- I was protecting novice, despite advocating lynching him early on? You'd think the people who yelled at me for daring to vote for him pre-Mattimeo reveal might be scummier.

Zak asking Adrien for permission to vote for me is cute. Him attacking anyone who dares post anything in my defense is scummy and an obvious attempt to railroad a bandwagon lynch based on retroactive bad vibes and contradictory accusations regarding my D1 play ("Being against role-claiming is terrible village play, so Bob must be scum! And making a case against novice so early was supernaturally good village play, so Bob must have been using insider scum knowledge!")

Maybe I should be clearer as to what I think happened. You figured novice was in trouble. He was clearly in a bad position so you bet on a lynch and went after him. When it became kind of clear that we weren't going to lynch a claimed cop without more info you backed off. You knew the worst possible outcome was if more people claimed, as it could break novice's cover, so you advocated against it.
At first I felt the same about Zak's "I'll follow you on Bob if you want" comment, but I think he just reacted to my post saying I had bad vibes on you on D1 to encourage me to look further into it.
What I feel supernatural about you is that a cop would have had exactly the results you had on Novice Lewwyn and Q.

Can you explain further why you are not happy?

I think strategic role reveals are the best advantage town has in this setup. I think its lazy to disingenious to say otherwise.

- If Twinkle is town, scum already know that he has a power role, because he threw away hider
- Assuming Q is town, scum already have a top priority target they need to eliminate tonight, so knowing another won't materially impact our game until at least Day 4
- If Twinkle is scum, he has a small but significant chance of being caught immediately if he roleclaims wrongly.

And i mean, we caught Novice through roleclaiming. Which I advocated then too.

I'm not saying the whole town needs to lay its cards out, though I'm not cdertain if that would really be so bad either. But anybody already under suspicion, and ESPECIALLY somebody who tosses a power role, I think should claim. Why do you disagree?

How many times do I need to explain this? Look, obviously most of us have power roles. Quite possibly all of us. It doesn't take an act of genius to figure that out. So yes, the scum know he has a power role. I have a power role. You probably have a power role, unless you're just a vanilla Goon.

The point is that the scum don't know which power roles we are. What if I'm forced to reveal to avoid a lynch, and my role is really good? I'll die in the night. What if I'm a Lover, and my death takes down a Mason and/or Cop? Or if my role is something mediocre, the scum know they can safely ignore me for a while, shrinking the pool of prime targets. This reasoning applies to everyone.

You are correct that revealing could catch scum who claim a taken role, but even this has downsides. Downside #1: the scum could claim an unoccupied role and, not being challenged, gain completely undeserved village cred, especially if the role is one where they can easily fake night results. Downside #2: if the scum claims something vital like, say, Doctor, then person who actually has the role can only call them out by exposing themselves. In fact, were I scum, I would claim Doctor at this point no matter what, since a Doctor cannot self-protect and the only other possible village protective role would block the Doctor from helping anyone. If nobody contests the Doctor claim, then the scum know the village likely doesn't have one at all, which is also invaluable information.


Look, I think all of this really ought to be obvious. I think a number of the people calling for role reveals under pressure know better, and that's what makes me suspicious of you.

Some of what you say is true, but I disagree about two things : your downside 1 is wrong, we all believed Novice only to the point of waiting for D2. I'm sure there would have been a "is he lying about his cop action ?" discussion today if he had lived. And as Gazglum said in his second point Q is a likely target for N2, another claim is probably not going to change that. And I'd rather see you claim now rather than knowing about it when we've mislynched you...

[Ichabod]

I prefer to lynch dtay or TT over Bob. Reading the votes, I don't think TT can be lynched right now over bob. So, I'm sticking with dtay.

Would you really prefer TT over dtay or do you think both equally scummy.

I prefer dtay, but I also prefer TT or dtay over bob. But TT is currently on dtay, so he can easily switch to bob and I doubt we can get TT to 8 votes. Dtay could get bob's vote for 5 votes, so perhaps dtay can be the lynch today. Hence my post, saying I don't see a change for TT (last vote was Gaz for TT, but I don't see that going much further).

[Fenn]

Jowy, when you wake up, could you provide your reasoning for your town reads on me, AdrienIer and Gazglum?

If it becomes relevant yeah. Do you think one of you three is scum?

Not as such but I'm not 100% convinced that AdrienIer and Gazglum are town, a second opinion on them would be good. Plus seeing your reads on them will help us get reads on you.

It's true that Lewwyn voted for novice when he was only 6-5, but after Mattimeo's claim it was only a matter of when people checked the thread for novice to hang, he would have been the clear vote leader with or without Lewwyn's vote. Lewwyn would be suspicious enough without refusing to vote novice imo.

Bob's last post reads like trying to shame people into not voting him, his reasoning is flawed as Meiz/zak have noted. Just not convinced by it.

Dtay, well I don't know what Gazglum's seeing in his recent play, it's more of the noncommittal fluff from day 1. Yes he is new and had better things to do than internet mafia games this Sunday, but I can't stop suspecting somebody just because they're new or haven't had loads of time lately. Still think I'll keep my vote on him.

Cross posted with zakalwe's Post #801.

[Rowain]

Bob's last post reads like trying to shame people into not voting him, his reasoning is flawed as Meiz/zak have noted. Just not convinced by it.

You do think Bob to be scum? But you do believe that dtay is more scummy?

Do you believe in a dtay/bob-scumpair?