RP Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Darius I of the Holy Roman Empire

[Nakor]

DMOC, I would NOT tell India that we're going at war with them.
Why not keep playing the game and tell them that Dantski made us an offer we can't refuse?
We could even use India's proposal with CoW to get some leverage...

Let me think about it some more today. It's very important diplomacy we're talking about. We can't quit CoW and we don't want to anger India to much... walking a fine line...

[Nakor]

[SIZE="5"]Turn 99 (start):[/SIZE]

Rolan is whipped for the settler, Library afterwards
Krondor will finish an Axe and will start a Library or Rathaus
Sethanon grew to size 5, 2 scientists hired, still working the rice so it can grow
Crydee still on Lib. I sugest we pre-chop 2 forests so we can chop after border expansion
La Mut will have a border pop as well soon. Axe after Granary, then (when size 3) a settler for Yabon.

IW in 2 turns.

Big stack is moved. We still need to gift 2 axes before the turn ends.

Lot of communication, update later today or tomorrow.

Krill will be arbiter now and hopefully decide soon.

[DMOC]

Sethanon is running scientists so we get our first one in 17 turns. Academy in rolan I presume?

Okay, we'll have Rolan grow while building the library, no more whips. Make sure the cottages are being worked btw.

Krondor should start a library unless the rathaus can save us 4 gold per turn.

I will be catching up on communication later, I have my SATs again tomorrow. Ugh. I need a 2250+.

[Nakor]

[SIZE="5"]Communication update:[/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"]KOREA[/SIZE]

Hi Nakor and DMOC,

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems to me you delivered a Confucian Missionary to Whosit. This strikes me odd and hostile since I'm naturally culturally battling with him currently. Are you really willing to aid the agressor that clearly is strong enough already?

I really hope you could cancel all the dealings with him.

Regards,
plako of Korea

[COLOR="Orange"]Hi Plako,

You know the old saying: Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer...
We have to keep on good terms with Whosit if we don't want to suffer the same fate you have.
At least at this time in the game.

We hope that confusianims will spread to Seoul of it's own accord, but if now, we'll send a missionary your way once we'll be able to build them.

I hope you can understand the difficult situation we're in.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Hi Nakor,

I'm glad to hear you're still our friends. Some religion will eventually spread to us so it might be better for you to invest hammers for something else than missionaries.


Kind regards,
plako

[SIZE="4"]INDIA[/SIZE]

[COLOR="orange"]Dear Sullla,

We noticed that Greece declared war on you.
That makes our proposal a bit more problematic.

Sorry I couldn't reply sooner, the first 2 days of the week are my most hectic. Lot's of classes to teach and meetings to attend to.

Thanks for the warning regarding Rome, but Greece isn't that good a neighbour either. And neither is Romali.
Once the threat of the preats is gone, he's just another opponent. So we try to stay friendly for as long as that takes.
And of course we'll be aware of a possible trap.
As we're sure you were with Jowy, though we thought you feared Dantski more at the moment.

How do you think this war will evolve? Will Dantski join?
What do you think we can do?

Good luck with the war (though we don't think you need to much of it, being the experienced players you two are),

Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Dear Nakor and DMOC of Holy Rome,


I'm sensing that your team is wavering a bit because of the Jowy war declaration. Let me use this message to get you back on board with our team!

We'll be honest with you: our scouting unit uncovered an attack force containing units not just from Jowy, but from athlete and kalin as well. We have an old Non-Aggression Pact with their team, and when it runs out in two turns, they are going to declare war on us too. We expect that Dantski is in on this plan, and will be at war with us before the end of the current turn, if he isn't already by the time that you get this message....

So with all that in mind, here's why you should join OUR side of the battle instead of sitting around doing nothing!

1) Dantski is going to move most of his units into our territory, if he hasn't already done so. That will leave his backline cities, especially Gao, open to an attack. You do want to claim that iron and clear out some space for Crydee, right? This is your chance to do it!

2) We're pretty confident that we can fight off Jowy and athlete with the units we have right now. The main thing we need is a little relief from Dantski; in return for your support, we'd be willing to reward your team very handsomely in the postwar era. Partition of Dantski's land, gold per turn (once one of us discovers Currency), resources - it's all on the table to discuss. We can guarantee you won't find a better ally than our team!

(Are you really going to put your faith in Whosit? Yeah, OF COURSE he's going to be all smiles and friendliness now, after he's got enough land to become the game superpower. What do you think is going to happen after he runs out of room again down the road?!)

3) Let's assume you sit back and do nothing. In a worst-case scenario, the three teams attack and destroy my team. Then let's see what you have: a much stronger Dantski and Jowy, joined together at the hip in a tight alliance, with a friendly athlete to boot. Where do you think their armies are going to go next, eh? Not north! That's where athlete is located. They'd both have no choice but to come south, and then your team is on the other end of the dogpile. I hope you don't think Whosit would ride to the rescue!

4) In contrast, let's say you provide us some assistance, just enough to keep Dantski honest. You're likely to take Gao at the very least, and once we drive back Jowy and athlete, we'll turn our forces south and help you destroy Dantski for good. (We'll put this in formal writing if you like, a pledge that we will kill Dantski with you before we go after Jowy.) Now the two of us have partitioned Dantski's territory, and Speaker and I still have two hostile teams to the north. *ALL* of our future expansion would be towards them. We are seriously pissed over here, and we want some payback at their expense. You'd have a rock-solid ally at your back, double your current territory, and the possibility to work east around the map's edge to expand further.

I'd say that's a lot better than sitting on the fence and doing nothing while Dantski becomes stronger!

I know that Jowy, athlete, and kalin are Nakor's teammates in RBPB3, but keep in mind that that's a totally different game. There's no reason to let that affect the diplomacy in this game. The fact of the matter is, we can offer you a better deal than these other teams. We'd love to have you as our ally for the rest of this game!

Sullla
The Killer Angels

Dear Speaker and Sullla,

Thanks for the very informative message.
We're going to talk things over and will decide what will be the best course for us in this conflict.

I'd just like to tell you beforehand that my involvement with Athlete, Kalin and Jowy for RBP3 won''t intefere with this game.
As you have said, it are different games and teammates from one game can be either friends or enemies in another in my opinion.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE

[SIZE="4"]THE EMPIRE[/SIZE]

Dear Nakor,

I just wanted to follow up on our conversation from the other day, especially regarding Korea's demand. Any additional information that you gleaned from their communication would be helpful. As I mentioned, the Empire has a NAP with Korea until Turn 150 and I was wondering if you think there's a chance that they may break it before then. I plan to build a few more Praetorians for home defense, but I don't want to be under-prepared.

Otherwise, I will keep you updated on things of importance. I have begun exploring the Outer Sea and it appears that the island formations are larger and more numerous than I first expected, but I have yet to explore them thoroughly. I'll also let you know if I find anything else interesting about Centralia, but expect updates in several-turn increments due to the slow rate of exploration. Unless my exploring Axeman can get a few kills, I won't be able to promote him to Woodsman II, which would speed up the exploration (the sole Barbarian that I ran across fled rather than face my soldier in combat).

On another note, I think that I've caught a better glimpse of your border with the Romali. To say that you have close borders would be an understatement. It looks like you have a city north of their southernmost city. How you managed to pull that off is a mystery to me. No doubt Romali is hoping to open up room for expansion to their north, because otherwise they will be feeling quite the pinch.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Dear Nakor/DMOC,

I noticed your comment in the last Coalition message, about India urging you not to trust me. Although I am sure that you are not listening to them, I am curious to hear if they offered any reasons. I have had very little contact with them, so they surely can't claim to know of any secret plot on my part (and there is no secret plot, obviously). If they think that you are my next obvious target, then they are simply misinformed. Or perhaps they just don't like me for some reason. Or, more likely, they just believe that they can shake your resolve.

Now, while I am certain of your continued friendship, I cannot be so certain of my other neighbors. Did India make any mention of reaching out to Korea or the Inca? I'd like to know if I need to watch my back. In any case, best of luck on the battlefield. I shouldn't be too long behind you.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Whosit,

India thinks that you are the big threat in this game.
You have taken out your two closest neighbours and in due time will attack us, according to them.
Of course they want us to fear you instead of them.
They didn't mention Korea or the Inca's in their messages, so I wouldn't fear to much from them.

We hope the game will continue soon!

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Dear Nakor and DMOC,


Well, I suppose that India has a valid point . . . except that the Inca destroyed the Zulu, and Korea is still alive (and thus a potential threat). I couldn't blame you if you wanted to be cautious, in any case, since I've mentioned before that a certain dose of paranoia is probably helpful to survival. I honestly can't see myself attacking Holy Rome ever (unless attacked first), but you'd have to take my word for it, I suppose. All I have to offer for proof is that I have plenty of space to expand in that is a direction that is not you.


Like you, I hope that the issues will get resolved soon and that we can move on. Perhaps we should encourage those who have not yet voted to do so (Jowy and Dantski at this point in time).


Until the fighting actually starts, we can only guess, but I wonder who the big winners and losers of this war are going to be. It's looking less and less likely that we can actually take out any Indian cities, except maybe the smallest of them. Sullla will almost surely fight a defensive war, but Jowy and Dantski offer logical targets if they decide to become more offensive. You, Athlete/Kalin, and myself should not face the risk of direct invasion from India. Daniel and Broker/plako aren't involved, yet.


My hunch is that those who are not directly adjacent to India will benefit the most, as there is still an opportunity to continue expansion and economic build-up, while Jowy and Dantski will probably have to build more units out of necessity. I imagine that Daniel is just going to do his own thing and expand. Korea will probably continue to expand to the islands, but I plan to keep my eye on them, anyway. In the event that we descend on India like a swarm of locusts and pillage the place clean, I wonder how far back that will really put them. The chances that we can capture any of their Workers is slim to none, and the biggest losses will be their time invested in growing Cottages, and the time required to rebuild their improvements, which may very well be significant, but may not be significant enough to "eliminate" them.


Otherwise, news of interest to you may be that I have confirmed the presence of Silver on Centralia. However, I am currently scouting "my" side of the island, but I imagine that where there is one deposit, there is more. Most of the other resources are Calendar resources, as I think I have mentioned before, and quite a bit of jungle to be chopped away, as well. Barbarians are present, but nothing an Axeman can't deal with, so far. No sign of Ivory, unfortunately, but I'm not expecting to find any in this world.


Let's stay in touch.

[COLOR="orange"]Dear Whosit,

Thanks for the kind words!
We can't seen us attacking you ever in this game as well.
We are still a bit cautious due to you mentioning a "bloc" forming. But we hope that you will inform us about that when the time is right.
There is plenty of room to expand to for you, and we'll manage as well. We'll focus on cities on Centralia and our nearest island after a few more cities on the main land.

I personally do not believe that we'll be ably to do a lot of damage to India. Maybe you preats will be able to take 2 cities with assistance. That would put them back a bit, and pillaging gives us gold and costs them time, but the long term benefit it small.

We will however keep to the bargain we made and fight this war, though the chances of a second strike force are getting a bit slimmer.

it's good to hear that there is silver on Centralia. Getting IW next turn will make it possible to clear the jungle as well, so no problem there.
And calender might be an interesting choice for us after maths and some other little things.
Though with Stonehenge, I think you'll keep away from it for some time. So resource trades might be possible!

Let's see what happens!

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

[SIZE="4"]COALITION OF WILLING[/SIZE]

[COLOR="Orange"]Hi guys,

Just like to tell you that India is fully aware of the situation.
They expect the Ottamans and Dantski to declare as well and asked for our assistance.
They made a very tempting offer, which we of course have to decline in some way.
But this is a though one... If Whosit weren't part of the plan... they do offer a lot, you know...

Well, the die was cast long ago and we'll keep true to our word and attack at t105.

Dantski, there's probably no point in waiting with declaring.

Good luck!
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Incidentally I talked a bit with India ingame just before the turn rolled and they were very interested in taking Greece's iron (rather than settling the one on their southern border). They also sent me another email about future cooperation which clearly shows they are spinning for all they're worth right now.

Also I'm pretty sure India is offering you (HRE) at least 3 of my cities. All I have to counter that is that the game would be lost almost certainly if we didn't cut India down ASAP, I would also point to the positive way we resolved our land issues.

-Dantski

Greetings Friends,

Things are unfolding in ways that I didn't foresee, however it looks
like they are going in the right direction.

Greece and us will most likely beeline for their horses taking
Chancellorville on the way if possible. I doubt we can take it now
that they expect us to come, but we'll see. I was wondering if Dantski
can try and advance towards the copper. We can switch of course (us
going for copper and Dantski for the horses).

@HRE: We are grateful that you are on our side. I expected nothing
less from India to promise things, but remember that it's not hard to
promise something you don't have. Also, the fact still remains that
India will be an extremely strong civ to compete against. If they are
successful in taking over one of their neighbors it's easy to see how
they will become unstoppable. Even if short-medium term gains will be
gained, what will happen later? Another thing is the value of one's
word: switching from one thing to another doesn't make a great
reputation.

Best,
Kalin

Everyone,

It looks like we will be having an arbiter solve this debate, and it sounds like we've all agreed to abide by whatever decision is made. If we take the first half, we'll just have to use that as best we can.

Nakor, while I normally advocate the quick and easy path, as Kalin has pointed out, it's best to consider the consequences of allying with India in this conflict. But it sounds like you have already made the right decision.

Perhaps it is simply hubris on my part, but I wonder why India has not contacted me yet. Either they do not believe I can be of any help, or they already believe that I am preparing to strike against them. It's possible that Korea has mentioned that I withdrew my troops from the border, and so Sullla extrapolated from that.

For my part, I will be shipping out this turn once I have time to give the orders. You already know what happens after that.

[COLOR="orange"]Hi Everyone,

We ARE keeping true to our promise.
We have a great cooperation going on here and we want to be a part of this.
So please understand that we'll stay true to our word and will attack at t105/106. Our army is on the move.

I only send my message to keep you informed and to tell you how far India is willing to go and how good India can be diplomaticaly.
Honesty is the best policy when you want to keep friends and we want to be your friends, not India's.

We do hope that the turn order will be resolved soon so the games can contiunue.

Whosit: strange indeed! They do urge is not to trust you...

Good luck!
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

[novice]

In BtS, stonehenge doesn't expire until astronomy.

[Nakor]

novice: stupid me!

Finally wrote my reply so Sullla:

[COLOR="Orange"]Dear Sullla,

Finally the game can continue.

I must admit that I'm a bit dissapointed that you and Jowy couldn't come to a turn order yourselves and needed an arbiter.
But I guess both of you wanted to move second.
We did notice that for the last few turns you always were last to end your turn, so I can safely assume that you were expecting a war declaration.
My guess is that you tricked Jowy into a declaration. I would assume you had moved as well after seeing a warrior pass my units.
But I guess that's part of the game. Just my thoughts, no harm intended.

So, the Ottomans will join in as well, that's interesting! Don't really understand why they need another war so soon...
I'm sure Dantski is in as well. Maybe others? What do you think?

Another difficult choice for us then.

I agree with your assesment of Whosit. And maybe, when we start attacking Dantski, Whosit will move into our backline and take our cities.
So we must make sure that that won't happen.
We don't have a formal NAP at the moment (we both don't really believe in NAP's but more on solid cooperation to form a good bond between nations, the thing we want to do with you as well), so I'll try to get that done before we can safely consider joining your side and keep Dantski busy.

You do make some very good points.

There are of course also very good points to make to turn against you and join the attack on you....

We're not planning that, since we like to form a good bond between our nations.( I believe more in your survival in this game then in Greece's and/or Romali's,) And we have to think about the long term as well. We believe that you can be a valuable long term friend in this game.

So, what I'll do, is talk to Whosit to get a formal NAP. Once that's done, we'll assess the situation and see what we can do with our small stack.
To speed things up a bit and make Dantski think again, we'll end our NAP with them. That makes it possible for us to move against them in 10 turns and might keep some of his army busy.

Good luck in the upcoming struggles.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

The line I'm going to follow with them is that I'll claim that during NAP negotiations with Whosit he ask/demands that we join the fight against India. And then I'll claim we'll do our best to do as little harm as possible while still being involved. Things might even happen that way...

Then, once the war is over (and I'm sure India won't loose that much, CoW's forces aren't strong enough), we might be able to keep good relations with India AND CoW, making it maybe possible to declare on Dantski at an appropriate time with the help of India.

It's all a bit thin and I'm not sure that India will buy it, but all we can do is try...

What do you think, DMOC?

[MWIN]

What is the purpose of "May be others?"

I'm sure Dantski is in as well. Maybe others? What do you think?

[Nakor]

MWIN: I'm trying to find out what Sullla knows...

[DMOC]

We're going to declare war on India and expect that they are suddenly friendly with us afterwards? I know they'll probably be short on friends but that strikes me as odd.

Anyway, it's turn 99. Turn 100 = War for most of the CoW.

[Nakor]

DMOC, it's all about the way you bring the message.
We mustn't burn the bridge completely and I'm trying to keep the bridge as whole as possible. Sure they won't be friends afterwards, but if we keep communication going they might sooner be able to become friends again.