I don't actually have anything to show yet, as this game isn't started until I manage to find a little extra time (at home). It's just that I got the idea for the thread title, so I figured I'd use it before I forget.
I guess we might as well hash out overall strategy, while we're here.
So what's notable about this game? Northstar asked for map settings that fit his chosen civ well. The Lanun definitely like having water around, and a big map favors an economic civ like them.
That said, I think he made a mistake asking for Inland Seas instead of Waterways. Lanun naval advantages are pretty minor compared to the coves, and waterways gives tons and tons of nice coasts, perfect for coving up. Waterways also makes it harder to settle away from water, which is likely to be relevant with our cliché playstyles.
I could have argued against these settings, it was pretty clear they don't favor a scout choke. But I'm pretty sure I can win this anyway. From what I've seen in his other games, I wouldn't be surprised to find Northstar lose some of his advantages by micro and...questionable macro choices, too.
What do I expect from him? Honestly, bog-standard Lanun play. Build coastal cities, coves, research Octopus Overlords, build a navy and probably the melee line, come looking for trouble. Or else full-bore OO, with a Drown/Stygian invasion and no boats at all.
What's my gameplan? Jerkitude
. That is, constant harassment. He let something slip in the map discussion: "One we reach a critical level of development where we're both ready for war, I don't see how a little wilderness between our borders is going to change much..." That strongly, strongly suggests a FFA/SP mindset, where you build just enough military to keep the AI from attacking and focus on economy. Then, when out of room or when you reach your preplanned fun tech level, bulild an army and attack!
Well...the Svartalfar are ready for war from T0, buddy. As HK pointed out, Combat I Sinister scouts can beat warriors anywhere outside a city, and they're only one victory away from Shock, after which they can beat even copper warriors. On top, they're 2-movers, and the forest-move ability gives them even more mobility. Done properly, I ought to choose all the fights, and have them at good odds. And they're cheap! It really doesn't take much damage for a 16-hammer unit to pay for himself. One worker kill per three built scouts, and I still come out ahead.
I can repeat this with either Fawns or Hunters, in the next stage of war. I probably want to add in Horseback Riding at some point early, too - for mobility promos and for a couple units who can pillage.
The biggest challenge I face is the sheer size of the map. It'll take me a while to find him, and it'll take a while for units to get to him. I may not be able to arrive with scouts before he's got something stronger. My test map had ~1150 land tiles - quite a bit for a duel!
Hmm. Although, looking at Seven's description of the map, that may be only because I didn't turn off the AI's to generate the test map. He says Mirrorland dimensions depend only on # of players, not on official mapsize. In that case...hmm. Do I want to propose an alteration to Northstar, to get something like what he's expecting? On the one hand, he's got the same ability to test the map as I do, and he agreed to Mirrorland explicitly. On the other, well, he asked for Small in the clear expectation that it would matter.
My gut says yes, I should inform him and find a different script. I want to bend over backward, so that when I beat him he has no excuse. I just don't want to spend the effort to find a new script and maybe negotiate all over again
.
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Anyway, back to strategy talk, while I mull that over. And give a chance for lurkers to inform me if my understanding of Mirrorland is even right.
So, we'll want to get a bunch of scouts out early, regardless. Want to find my foe and start harassing him. But even if that doesn't work - we also want to work on animals and barbs. It shouldn't be hard to get scouts up to 10 XP/level 4. That gives a lot of options - really fast harassers, or Combat IV/Shock, or Capture Animal. I may show up late, but if I can show up with some really well-promoted hunters, that'll still work out. Or some spiders and griffons.
Now, as a backup plan, we also want to grow up fast and strong. I figure this is my best chance ever to get the Grand Menagerie, and otherwise we'll go classic elven econ: Fellowship of Leaves, big cities with an ancient forest on every tile. We're Creative, so we can afford to spread out the early cities in anticipation of growing tall. It's not exactly a tragedy if we end up working a whole bunch of specialists to go with our Ancient Forest cottages, so I shouldn't overdo it. Lanun gives him an advantage in quick start, but I expect micro can outweigh that. Elven econ is especially strong on a random map, because you can make food and happiness out of any terrain.
Elven econ doesn't actually require that much tech. Fellowship of Leaves, Education, Guardian of Nature, Priesthood, maybe the recon line. I can afford to skip magic, metal, and all kinds of other stuff, so long as I get the basics.
He'll go OO, so we want to stay away from the sea, but we'd want that anyway since sea cities are generally weak.
I guess we might as well hash out overall strategy, while we're here.
So what's notable about this game? Northstar asked for map settings that fit his chosen civ well. The Lanun definitely like having water around, and a big map favors an economic civ like them.
That said, I think he made a mistake asking for Inland Seas instead of Waterways. Lanun naval advantages are pretty minor compared to the coves, and waterways gives tons and tons of nice coasts, perfect for coving up. Waterways also makes it harder to settle away from water, which is likely to be relevant with our cliché playstyles.
I could have argued against these settings, it was pretty clear they don't favor a scout choke. But I'm pretty sure I can win this anyway. From what I've seen in his other games, I wouldn't be surprised to find Northstar lose some of his advantages by micro and...questionable macro choices, too.
What do I expect from him? Honestly, bog-standard Lanun play. Build coastal cities, coves, research Octopus Overlords, build a navy and probably the melee line, come looking for trouble. Or else full-bore OO, with a Drown/Stygian invasion and no boats at all.
What's my gameplan? Jerkitude
. That is, constant harassment. He let something slip in the map discussion: "One we reach a critical level of development where we're both ready for war, I don't see how a little wilderness between our borders is going to change much..." That strongly, strongly suggests a FFA/SP mindset, where you build just enough military to keep the AI from attacking and focus on economy. Then, when out of room or when you reach your preplanned fun tech level, bulild an army and attack! Well...the Svartalfar are ready for war from T0, buddy. As HK pointed out, Combat I Sinister scouts can beat warriors anywhere outside a city, and they're only one victory away from Shock, after which they can beat even copper warriors. On top, they're 2-movers, and the forest-move ability gives them even more mobility. Done properly, I ought to choose all the fights, and have them at good odds. And they're cheap! It really doesn't take much damage for a 16-hammer unit to pay for himself. One worker kill per three built scouts, and I still come out ahead.
I can repeat this with either Fawns or Hunters, in the next stage of war. I probably want to add in Horseback Riding at some point early, too - for mobility promos and for a couple units who can pillage.
The biggest challenge I face is the sheer size of the map. It'll take me a while to find him, and it'll take a while for units to get to him. I may not be able to arrive with scouts before he's got something stronger. My test map had ~1150 land tiles - quite a bit for a duel!
Hmm. Although, looking at Seven's description of the map, that may be only because I didn't turn off the AI's to generate the test map. He says Mirrorland dimensions depend only on # of players, not on official mapsize. In that case...hmm. Do I want to propose an alteration to Northstar, to get something like what he's expecting? On the one hand, he's got the same ability to test the map as I do, and he agreed to Mirrorland explicitly. On the other, well, he asked for Small in the clear expectation that it would matter.
My gut says yes, I should inform him and find a different script. I want to bend over backward, so that when I beat him he has no excuse. I just don't want to spend the effort to find a new script and maybe negotiate all over again
.------
Anyway, back to strategy talk, while I mull that over. And give a chance for lurkers to inform me if my understanding of Mirrorland is even right.
So, we'll want to get a bunch of scouts out early, regardless. Want to find my foe and start harassing him. But even if that doesn't work - we also want to work on animals and barbs. It shouldn't be hard to get scouts up to 10 XP/level 4. That gives a lot of options - really fast harassers, or Combat IV/Shock, or Capture Animal. I may show up late, but if I can show up with some really well-promoted hunters, that'll still work out. Or some spiders and griffons.
Now, as a backup plan, we also want to grow up fast and strong. I figure this is my best chance ever to get the Grand Menagerie, and otherwise we'll go classic elven econ: Fellowship of Leaves, big cities with an ancient forest on every tile. We're Creative, so we can afford to spread out the early cities in anticipation of growing tall. It's not exactly a tragedy if we end up working a whole bunch of specialists to go with our Ancient Forest cottages, so I shouldn't overdo it. Lanun gives him an advantage in quick start, but I expect micro can outweigh that. Elven econ is especially strong on a random map, because you can make food and happiness out of any terrain.
Elven econ doesn't actually require that much tech. Fellowship of Leaves, Education, Guardian of Nature, Priesthood, maybe the recon line. I can afford to skip magic, metal, and all kinds of other stuff, so long as I get the basics.
He'll go OO, so we want to stay away from the sea, but we'd want that anyway since sea cities are generally weak.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker
Occasional mapmaker
