Be Vewwy Vewwy Quiet! [Game 3 Session IV Mardoc v Northstar]

[HidingKneel]

I think...I think I want to settle on the Ivory.

Sounds right to me.

Any objections to that, HK?

Hard to complain about having extra information. It'll be pretty tough to beat a 2H plant with three floodplains in the BFC, though. Especially for a civ that starts with Agriculture.

Really not sure what I'd do with this as the Lanun.

Yeah, I'd say this map is better for your relative positions than the last one.

[Mardoc]

With that quick response, I can play the next portion before heading out for errands instead of after:



Oooh, piggies!

Dyes are tempting, but I think the wheat and floodplains are still more valuable. Thinking to stick with the Ivory plan.

We won't need much at all in the way of worker tech until 2nd city. AH would be valuable for the pigs and animal capture, Calendar/Agrarianism is probably also a good idea for now, and otherwise - Ancient Chants - Edu-Mysticism - Hunting-Way of the Forest, I think.

Well, maybe slip in Exploration for roads But nothing else seems particularly urgent, not until 2nd city or later.

[HidingKneel]

Thinking to stick with the Ivory plan.

Agreed.

AH would be valuable for the pigs and animal capture, Calendar/Agrarianism is probably also a good idea for now, and otherwise - Ancient Chants - Edu-Mysticism - Hunting-Way of the Forest, I think.

I'd definitely go Calendar first. Timing of AH... I'd wait to see how important AH food is to city #2. Want to see more fog.

[Mardoc]

And we're off. Turn is in Northstar's hands.




Warrior's going to scout one circle to the NW, then come home to fortify. Scout's going to book it eastward. Hopefully between the two of them we can figure out what we want for city 2. But also, the scout's got 24 tiles to cover eastward, which could be as little as eight turns if forests and flatlands are positioned right. That seems early enough to be worth the beeline - make worker-first not actually work for once.

[Mardoc]

Damn you, Northstar, would it kill you to do a little bit of research or checking before you spout off?!?

Uhhh, Mardoc, these aren't the settings we agreed upon...



Noble difficulty? (should be Monarch) Standard world size? (that's not even allowed- should be Small) And what's with the sea level- this was supposed to be Snaky Continents or whatever else was closest to the original pick of "inland Seas" before we discovered Mirrorland was far too tiny... (or does that just show up as "Medium Sea Level"?)

A re-gen will be necessary, if only to increase the difficult to Monarch... (the default)

Regards,
Northstar

Oh, and yes, difficulty DOES make a difference- it impacts the spawn-rates and behavior of animals (particularly important for the Lanun, with Giant Tortoises being usable as War Tortoises), the chances of different events with dungeon-pops (some of the Unique Features count as dungeons- and having a lower difficulty GREATLY favors the Svartalfar with their recon-focus, as does the lower danger of exploring by land on Noble), and the starting health/happy bonuses...

So, we're going to need a re-gen for sure. I don't wish to play on Noble.


Regards,
Northstar

He's simply wrong about most of that. The map size/sea level and whatnot are a quirk of the script, which makes you put in something in those slots and then ignores it entirely. WHICH HE COULD HAVE !@#%ing CHECKED FOR HIMSELF IF HE DIDN'T ALWAYS ASSUME THE WORST ABOUT PEOPLE. But...he kinda has a point on Monarch vs Noble, which I had overlooked. Well, he's wrong about the *actual* effect but +vs. barbs and lower tech cost and so on do tend to favor Svart. Well - extra barb spawn rate on Monarch probably favors us, not him, balancing that out a smidge.

It's a tiny little difference that I don't think is worth a restart, but I don't want to argue with him about it.

Mostly because I'm starting to assume the worst about him. Why does he believe RB is persecuting him in every little detail? Maybe because he himself looks for every little detail that he can use to persecute others? I think he saw no particularly good Lanun capital spot and looked for any excuse. Which means I wouldn't be able to convince him difficulty doesn't matter, because it's not his real reason.

So...again.




Wow, this is a change. Um...huh. Strong start, but neither trees nor seas

Moved the warrior/scout but not the settler. Too many options, might want his full movement.

Too many good tiles for me to be sure of where I want to go. Tentatively I'm thinking 2W. Remnants aren't a great tile to work yet, but they give a city happiness bonus we want. Floodplains, Rice, cotton, and riverside all help us get started quickly. Definitely Calendar first again. Seems likely that we can settle cities both north and south without any additional tech, but we might consider heading to Mining to enable the Gold.

Edit: after additional staring, 2W1N makes more sense. Remnants for getting the worker out faster from the beginning

EditEdit: Also, Northstar may not agree, but this is much in his favor. A free high-hammer tile from T0 will make scout harass much less effective. And I do see coastline to the NW and SE, both of which he can exploit as long as he can break a choke. And/or he could move for immediately, maybe losing one turn.

[Mardoc]

Committed.



Not often you see a happy cap of nine from T0!

Worker first, of course, and maybe a second worker afterward. Going to need a lot of improved tiles!

Well, ok, probably 2nd worker can wait a bit. But not too very long.




General area still looks lush. Lanun have a potential cove-lake to the NE.

Warrior's going to scout NE then come home, scout...I'm debating whether I'd rather have him continue E or loop to our NW. Probably just head straight for the attempted choke, we don't really need more scouting info to place cities until city 4 or so. Plenty of time to get out another scout or three.

[Bobchillingworth]

Wow, nice start.

particularly important for the Lanun, with Giant Tortoises being usable as War Tortoises

Is it even possible to capture Giant Tortoises and convert them into an endgame UU nobody remembers exists? Has anyone in the history of FFH ever done this? North has some truly unique priorities.

Mostly because I'm starting to assume the worst about him. Why does he believe RB is persecuting him in every little detail? Maybe because he himself looks for every little detail that he can use to persecute others? I think he saw no particularly good Lanun capital spot and looked for any excuse. Which means I wouldn't be able to convince him difficulty doesn't matter, because it's not his real reason.

That would certainly fit with my own experience. He threw a tantrum after (and only after) I sent him the initial save for our first duel because it was for the Discovery Era, even though I had told him no fewer than three times previously that I was proposing a duel on Discovery. His reasoning for why the setting was *INCREDIBLY UNFAIR* for Volanna was predictably catastrophically misinformed. I'm sure the start having few forests and IIRC a couple FP tiles (I picked Varn) had nothing to do with his sudden burst of outrage

[Ellimist]

War Tortoises also have the rare distinction of being a unique unit that is worse than the the unit it replaces.

[HidingKneel]

Third time's the charm, I hope...

Too late for me to weigh in, but why'd you pick that spot over 1N of there (gets an extra floodplains) or NE of there
(an extra floodplain, trades Rice for Wheat, and gets a Sheep for later)?

"Tons of food" should synergize nicely with the "insanely high happy cap".

With this start, I'd definitely go Calendar -> Chants -> Education (in addition to unlocking cottages, Education will boost the Remnants)

And... Northstar...

[Mardoc]

Third time's the charm, I hope...

Looks like it might be. Actually got the save back this time!

Looks like he also settled for Remnants. Same approval rating and other demos (well, except that we're Creative and working a prereq tech, he's neither). Doesn't tell us the exact tile, just that he's working remnants and has Sucellus in BFC.

Too late for me to weigh in, but why'd you pick that spot over 1N of there (gets an extra floodplains)

Mumble mumble cotton. I suppose a 4c tile isn't wonderful when we already claimed the resource, but that's what I was thinking. We'll have food out our pointy ears, could use a little commerce.

or NE of there
(an extra floodplain, trades Rice for Wheat, and gets a Sheep for later)?

Wanted Remnants T0 for the worker. Even having it T2 would probably cost us a turn.

"Tons of food" should synergize nicely with the "insanely high happy cap".

With this start, I'd definitely go Calendar -> Chants -> Education (in addition to unlocking cottages, Education will boost the Remnants)

Hmm. It'd be nice to get an XP-boosting civic in play, too.

Do we want to continue and grab CoL and run some early Aristocracy? We won't want it long term, but the value of the snowball is always big. I think my gut says no, it won't get us Fellowship faster, and post-fellowship we can afford to be a little slow. If we're not already winning by choke, then we'll be in for the long haul.

Animal Husbandry maybe after Edu. All these floodplains and plains = good chance for a scorpion. Poisoned blades = Or else the boring Mining path; this start has food out the wazoo but could use a little help hammer-wise.

And... Northstar...

I've calmed down some. I shouldn't really have to talk to him again, just play the game.

Am glad he didn't take me up on my offer to dedlurk him when he first joined the community, though!