WW 36 - Horrors in Kingsport [Game Thread]

[Doctor Saul]

That dtay quote keeps popping up every time I post on my phone, please ignore it

[AdrienIer]

Good start Adrien! Keep em coming. Do you think sunrise is being lazy or do you think he's scum hiding? That's what I meant by taking ownership: take a stand

Could be lazy. But he said he'd what he could to not have the least post on a given day and I think he still was yesterday. If not in pure numbers then in number of posts with content (although I was close second I think). He's a vet so I expected more of him in terms of read, too.
I'm fine with working with my intuition but here I got no great lean, as has been the case since this day begun.
I'll do a Gaspar reread after a (long) PB23 update.

[AdrienIer]

*since this game begun

[Commodore]

Tally as of post 743:

5 votes: Qgqqqqq (Lewwyn, BRickAstley, novice, Gaspar, Doctor Saul)
1 votes: novice (Qgqqqqq)
1 votes: Saul (Gazglum)

Voting history:

Brick

Lewwyn

Novice

novice

AdrienIer

AdrienIer

novice

Saul

Qgqqqqq

Qgqqqqq

Qgqqqqq

Qgqqqqq

Qgqqqqq

[Doctor Saul]

I'm fine with working with my intuition but here I got no great lean, as has been the case since this day begun.
I'll do a Gaspar reread after a (long) PB23 update.

This is how I'm feeling too actually. I'm thinking I want to start approaching this from the other direction: who do I think is most town and work backwards to try abs identify scum. Since I'm not feeling great about my case built on scum tells.

Eager to hear your thoughts on Gaspar. He's on my scumdar too.

[AdrienIer]

First meaningful Gaspar post : main thing I'm keeping is the attack on Sunrise which feels real. I don't see them as being scumbuddies, complicated scum plot isn't to be ruled out completely but in this case I doubt it. It goes on for a few posts.

Mattimeo vote that puts him from 4-3 to 5-3 is good. Complicated scum plot 2.0 ? Even more unlikely.

Then a lot of "good" posts, once again as in I can't say anything bad about them and feel like they could very well be from a townie. He wants to hear opinions on Novice and Lewwyn from people like me with few RB WW games, I'll do that after sleep (already did Novice, not convinced, I'll keep watching him).

So basically my read on Gaspar is that he's back to WW and in a period of getting back to full strength by scumhunting here and there. Being a vet has its disadvantages though : I'm not counting out the possibility that he's just nailing it as scum. Actually the trouble I found reading him is that I don't know yet what to make of his interactions with Lewwyn until I read his posts too. Becaus of similar difficulties to get leans I've been avoiding a Brick reread (lots of arguing with various people, which means having to decide who's right and who's wrong several times) and Dtay (his posts are long...)

[AdrienIer]

This is quite depressing... I'm longing for a moment of "of course, it was him all along" like last game with Bob. Of course I was wrong then but it gave me a purpose.

[Jabbz]

I'm sorry for how inactive I've been guys. Just really overloaded right now with school work. I'm doing my best to keep up. I know someone asked why I still felt Saul looked scummy. The best answer I can give right now, is that I don't currently see that, though I did yesterday, before I had to do a reread.. I think that a day and a half + away from the game, and having to reread back a ways, has helped with the tunnel vision. I think I was reading tons into everything he said, because I was convinced he was scummy. I'm not saying I think he is town at this point, but I can say that I'm no longer convinced he is scum.

I do still think dtay is scummy. He did a fake line by line response to my statements about him, which he tried to poo poo my arguments without really addressing them. Then he tries to paint me as someone who makes terrible arguments, and refuses to see that, despite the fact that others saw issues with the thing I'm pointing out as well. Then he tries to get town cred by saying, he could go either way, but I get defensive townie from him. In essence, he paints himself as this paragon of virtue and patience, and dismisses my arguments at the same time, all while avoiding ACTUALLY dealing with the arguments I make. It's scummy. For the moment I'm going to leave that here, and deal with other stuff as I don't feel like further irritating myself.

I went back and looked as some of the Novice/Lewwyn stuff. The butting of heads looks suspicious. Then there is this.

I'm sorry novice. You were right.

Jabbzs response here - while bullheaded - is in character. Novices' is not. novice Why are you being so inactive and passive about lynching me when you're this certain on me being lynched? These passive aggressive comments are picking at anything you could possibly use to scumfirm me. That's not how town novice plays.

Holy Crap Qg. What did you do copy and paste my argument and then change a few words like a cheating college student? I'm a teacher I can smell lazy plagiarism.

Qgqqqqq

You certainly know how to get me to stop voting for you.

Qgqqqqq

Both of them seem to back off of this disagreement, and voting for each other, very easily. I suppose that if the only real crux there was the "misunderstanding" about why Lewwyn was on Novice's ass, then that would make sense. It seems a bit too obvious to be contrived, so I don't buy both as scum, as it would be a pretty weak play.

On Qgqqqqq:

Do you really think I should say them, Saul? I'm happy to - but I don't think it's the right move.

No, they're similar but not the same.

Finally checked his role pm. It looks exactly the same.

I find it problematic that Qg somehow didn't notice that his role was exactly the same as Fenn's. This is just one of a series of places where Qg seems to be misreading or misunderstanding basic game mechanics. I don't think it reads as scummy in a single instance, but given the number of occasions it pops up in, it bothers me.

Novice, I don't really see a reason to claim mine. It's not going to change anyone's opinions of me, and it's only real purpose is catching people out in lies when they try to claim power roles.

I have a problem with this Qg. I'm not saying you're scum, so don't take it as an attack, but it does require us to believe you are in fact town, and that we can trust your reads. Otherwise, when you "catch people out in lies," you are just feeding us bs. Yeah, I understand if you make the wrong claim and someone gets strung up, you could die as well, but this seems to be an attempt to gain some town cred I'm not sure you're entitled to at this point.

Okay, so there's two scenarios here: either I am town with this role, or scum without, if we assume that there aren't duplicate roles on the scumteam. Therefore, if I am scum, than my claim only matters if it can be caught out by another role (they had visited xyz) or if I am town it only matters for if I can catch out a pr claimed with my role. If I am scum, it's easy to claim - I simply claim that I visited someone and other people had visited them in the past day (even if all the town claims roles, I could still claim that a scum role must've visited them). So I can easily make it impossible to catch me out as scum. If I am scum, than there should never be any reason to counterclaim - sure I can, but you'll just lynch me either that day or the following day anyway.

Whereas as town, my role has utility in catching out a scum claim or at least dissuading them from claiming for fear of being caught.

That's why I'm not prepared to claim. Honestly, I shouldn't have claimed last night.

Why couldn't you be scum with the role? Did I miss something?

Just reiterating I find it fishy, mostly because of your "cop" work last game

I have the same role as Mattimeo. I was working under the premise that scum roles aren't duplicated, which seems like it would be the case, especially with Commodore using relatively non-standard roles like bodyguard, I don't see him doubling up within the same team like that.

Why couldn't you be scum with the role? Did I miss something?

Just reiterating I find it fishy, mostly because of your "cop" work last game

I have the same role as Mattimeo. I was working under the premise that scum roles aren't duplicated, which seems like it would be the case, especially with Commodore using relatively non-standard roles like bodyguard, I don't see him doubling up within the same team like that.

Why not? From the first post:

-Roles might be repeated; don't expect you are the only ___ (Role of Roleness).
-Alignment and roles are separated, so scum might have a more village role and vice versa.

Gazglum, is your role name Bodyguard?

Thank you for saving me the effort Novice. It seems to me Qg should have checked before he posted. I'm fairly certain that's not the first time that has happened this game.

What are you even...

Yeah, sure. Roles can be repeated. This isn't relevant though. The scum team is 3-4 players based on any realistic estimations. Do you really think Commodore - a very creative person - would have half or over half of the scum team sharing the same role??? That's just shitty and uninteresting game design - especially in one this small.

Jabbzs response here - while bullheaded - is in character. Novices' is not. novice Why are you being so inactive and passive about lynching me when you're this certain on me being lynched? These passive aggressive comments are picking at anything you could possibly use to scumfirm me. That's not how town novice plays.

This whole series of interactions also feels very off to me. It appears like he is trying to shift the way we view Commadore's description of the way roles work in this game. Since it's a closed game, he gets some flexibility here, especially as Commadore is unlikely to directly answer questions regarding the issue, as an answer either way could provide meta information that changes our views on different people.

I add to that, and the analysis others have made about him, is the fact that a similar thing happened last game. This game is just a bit more difficult, because we have virtually no meta information to base our arguments on. I could see the thought running through his mind that "no one would think I would pull this twice in a row." Further, I see a lack of reference to last game's similar circumstance to be problematic as well. I know if I found myself in another role, similar to a doctor, and I outed myself at some point, I'd likely comment about the irony, or something. For him to not acknowledge that at all strikes me as someone doing their best to keep anyone's mind from going there.

So yeah, Qgqqqqq. I'm sure someone will jump on me for being "late the bus." I've been busy, shit happens, if you'd like to make that argument, I'll happily find a nearby witch to curse you to even smaller genitalia than you likely already have :P

[novice]

First meaningful Gaspar post : main thing I'm keeping is the attack on Sunrise which feels real. I don't see them as being scumbuddies, complicated scum plot isn't to be ruled out completely but in this case I doubt it. It goes on for a few posts.

I'm not sure I follow - why would they have to be scumbuddies for Gaspar to be scum? This reads like you know Sunrise to be scum!?

[Jabbz]

On a side note, my time opens back up Thursday evening. So if I survive that long, I'll be back in gear.