Fair enough. That's basically what I did with Azza, only I didn't manage to get clearly superior tech and MFG first, so it didn't work as well as I wanted.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker
Occasional mapmaker
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[SPOILERS] This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land. But Mostly Mine.
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Commodore, I'm mostly tongue in cheek. I know I'm not bad, but I don't think I'm as good as my position in this game would indicate. I'm a plodder with pride. Given the right circumstance I'll do well. Given a worse circumstance I'll probably be in the middle of the pack trying to claw everyone back to me.
Mardoc, the trouble with superior tech is that it's never superior for too long with KTB as high as it is. Beakers matter less than hammers in these mods because there's no quick shortcut to getting more hammers when you get behind and you really need them. One thing that shouldn't be lost in the current mess is that Krill has Mids so he's getting a 25% bonus on unit churn. This is actually a pretty big deal, but he still has many fewer cities than me.
Yes, my point was more about mindset. Perhaps another way to put it: I considered it a valid approach to the game in my shoes, and your shoes are better. I don't regret my choice, even knowing how it turned out.
Quote: the trouble with superior tech is that it's never superior for too long with KTB as high as it isI wouldn't break out the popcorn if I expected this to be a trivial project. No one applauds when I push the trashcan out to the curb  .Still, you've built yourself an enviable position. I'd bet on you, but I'd expect I could find someone to take the other side of that wager.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker
Nothing happens in a vacuum. The decisive aspect of this war will be how others react and/or take advantage. I can't give my full attention to Krill because OH/Fin are always a threat. Krill may similarly have a neighbor to be wary of, though I'm guessing dtay is going to play the economy game to try to maximize his finishing position.
February 23rd, 2015, 22:28
(This post was last modified: February 23rd, 2015, 22:33 by Boldly Going Nowhere.)
Eh, is unit gifting banned in this game? Somehow wetbandit has a nice stack of rifles and cannons that he didn't have before. Wetbandit can research Chemistry now, so he doesn't have Steel. Three turns until he can upgrade his knights to cavs.
There's kingmaking and then there's whatever Krill calls this bullshit.  For full disclosure, I gifted my wandering chariot to dtay a couple turns ago because Krill was chasing me and had it cornered in dtay's territory. I don't think this is exactly the same as gifting an opponent a large pile of advanced weapons that civ can't even build yet. Just my opinion, but this feels a little like a shitty end to a pretty good game. And then there's this:  More of the same to come?
February 23rd, 2015, 23:04
(This post was last modified: February 23rd, 2015, 23:20 by Commodore.)
Don't think unit gifts are banned...
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
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I looked back at the rules, this isn't a violation. I think it does rate decently high on the "Don't be a jerk" scale though.
On the one hand, I see the obvious symmetry. I thwarted Krill's invasion, he will seek to prevent me from gaining land via wetbandit (I assume that's the intent), and if things go poorly enough, maybe wetbandit can take stuff from me. But the only problem with this is that it doesn't help Krill at all, except to amuse him maybe. I had a direct benefit from preventing Krill establishing a beachhead on my continent. He is a highly competent and aggressive player who would then be positioned to attack me along a decently wide front. Ruff is not as good (else he'd be faring much better) and we have a good diplomatic relationship. I mean, I've basically saved his ass and I'm giving him everything he needs. If I can't buy a good relationship I'll kill him. I'm assuming Ruff knows this. So I think we're friends, and I'll accordingly be able to defend less against him because he's unlikely to attack. This frees me to be able to attack elsewhere and make gains. Except this wetbandit situation now... All I can say is I'm glad Cossacks kick so much ass. Even if wetbandit tries to attack me, even with Krill's units, he's going to take pretty severe losses. I've got a shitload of highly promoted Cossacks, I think something like 40 on the end of my continent nearest to Krill, and another dozen or so in former Nakor lands. Wetbandit has ~30 knights that he'll seek to upgrade to cavs, but he's going to find this expensive to do all at once. By the time he can get everything promoted I can have enough stuff over there to stop him cold, in addition to a pile of Infantry that laugh at cavs. As ever, we'll see what happens. Here's what I expect to happen. Krill is going to continue to build units and send them at me. Or, send them to wetbandit so he doesn't have to pay for them. I'll need to build up a navy to sink this shit in transit so I don't have to deal with all of it. Then I'll need to build up a flotilla of metal hulled boats and send a few waves of amphibious infantry to raze Krill's coastal cities. His tech rate sucks. If he just churns out units and doesn't invest in economy he'll just have to follow everyone with the KTB to whatever military tech he can reach. I ought to start a southern navy and settle an iceball somewhere on the edge of the map, sail my boats over there and then use the city's culture to upgrade the boats when I get Artillery or something then go smash Krill into bits. Bah. T200 A T200 report, without ALL OF THE SCREENSHOTS because I got tired of looking at everything and I've posted some of the relevant stuff recently anyway. There are a couple repeat pics in here, but deal. 
I dunno, I'm not sure I see why it's worse for Krill to gift units to someone who might maybe attack you with them rather than attacking you directly. As long as it's not for the double-movement on the turn of gift, anyway.
At least, not worse for you. I do have sympathy for wetbandit's other neighbors.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker (February 24th, 2015, 12:51)Mardoc Wrote: I dunno, I'm not sure I see why it's worse for Krill to gift units to someone who might maybe attack you with them rather than attacking you directly. As long as it's not for the double-movement on the turn of gift, anyway. Wetbandit's other neighbor is Xenu, and then HAK across the water. I suppose wetbandit could take them out instead and make some gains, but this doesn't help Krill either. I'm sure neither of those civs would appreciate being eliminated by a gifted stack. It's not worse for him to gift them to wetbandit than to use his power to spite me rather than to help himself. It's kind of exactly the same. My issue is playing to screw someone over when it will obviously impact the outcome of the game. It's no different than what Xenu is apparently doing to Greece, except neither of those civs will figure in the eventual game outcome. While Greece and Xenu may have little else to play for, I'd like to believe that I wouldn't throw the entire outcome of the game in a fit of pique over a single player, regardless of how well that player is doing. While Krill may feel that I deserve this, OH/Fin and TBS deserve a better end to the game than for one or the other of them to just have the win gifted on a silver platter. If I had decided to invade Krill and screwed up my own game because he played well enough to make me lose, that's obviously totally fair. It is not in his interest to see himself conquered. But for him to spite me because I thwarted his invasion of a mutual neighbor when I had a very legitimate in-game reason to do that is not fair, not to me or to the other contenders. If I was OH/Fin or TBS, I'd want to know I won because I had earned it, not because some child flipped the table over when things didn't work out for him. I'm not so naive to think that players will not have an emotional response to having plans thwarted, I just think that putting your own revenge as more important than the outcome of the entire game is way too much. It serves Zero purpose for Krill to gift his army, or for Krill to use his army to attack me so far from him when there is no way that he gains anything from the attack. Let's assume for a minute that Krill is able to break through my defense by the time his units get there and that he is able to take even 3 cities, which is being incredibly generous to his prospects. I eventually counterattack and wipe out his entire army and retake my cities. The distance involved between his resupply and mine and the manufacturing advantages I have eliminate any possibility of him retaining any gains. It is impossible. Krill knows this, but maybe he thinks wetbandit can, so maybe wetbandit can keep some gains. But how does this help Krill at all? He is still spending a lot of resources, not to help himself but to help another civ, and he receives nothing in compensation whatsoever. This would be no different to what I did to Krill against Ruff, except that I can defend against the neighbor I have already (Ruff) and that it serves an immediate benefit to my civ, preventing me from having to defend against a stronger neighbor. Krill's civ, never mind Krill the tactician, is a more difficult prospect to defend against, so I have an obvious reason to avoid having to do this. I really don't like when players put their own selfish interests over the interests of all of the other players in the game. We've played a lot of turns and invested a lot of effort and time into playing this, particularly the contending civs. It is really shitty to undermine the integrity of the end result just because your game wasn't strong enough and you want to king make. If he had a legitimate in-game reason to do this, I wouldn't waste another second thinking about it, but it's pique, nothing more. That pisses me off. I'm sorry if this looks like sour grapes. I had a reason to attack Krill and I refuse to not attack a player because this player may or may not turn into a revenge-seeking child. If this is the expected result from any combat then the only winning move is to eliminate every player in every war, or not go to war at all. Players ought to play for their advantage, not for the sole aim of thwarting others. Play to win, right? Sportsmanship matters, right? Do your best, play the hand your dealt, right? I suppose that's what I'll do and I won't say anything else about it. But Krill, if you read this, fuck you dude. |
(I really wish I had MoM). I should look to see how many GAs TBS has used. He could get caught up on tech quickly with KTB and possibly shoot ahead with a long GA and win a space race. Something to think about later if this blood feud doesn't take me out of the running.
One thing that stands out as a critical deficiency on the unit side is the very low number of collateral units. I'm working on improving this situation, particularly on the former England island where my forces are mostly coastal rifles. On the buildings side, no surprises there either. I love forges, and I get a discount on Observatories and Research Institutes, so I've prioritized building those. I'm going to see where it makes sense to build some more banks. With US/Kremlin rush buys, I will look to run a profit so I have surplus coin to buy what I need, so this means a lower average slider. Or, more wealth builds, but it's looking like I'm going to need to put out a bunch of units to subdue Krill (if such a thing is even possible). Also notable, I have a fair number of drydocks completed, so the navy shouldn't be in short supply.
They have less land, but are financial and are using the coast tiles to regrow between infantry drafts (it seems). I'm not tracking population super closely, I have enough else going on when I play, but they've produced some infantry in cities that have poor production, so there you have it.
Anyway, Steam Power for 
