WW37- For Whom the Bell Trolls

[Mattimeo]

That's funny jabbbz it certain seems to me like this:

And lo, from beyond the horizon appears a train, and it's preparing to mow down Agnes. I mean seriously though, where the hell did that come from? In 3 pages we went from one prodding/point making vote on Agnes to four votes?

Is an indication you didn't like he train.

eh, without the subsequent switch off it comes across as more noting the trend than disagreeing with it. The vote does twist the context somewhat, though.
He is correct about not actually stating a dislike of the wagon. Still, the confrontational way in which he does so seems a bit... off.

[Jabbz]

That's funny jabbbz it certain seems to me like this:

And lo, from beyond the horizon appears a train, and it's preparing to mow down Agnes. I mean seriously though, where the hell did that come from? In 3 pages we went from one prodding/point making vote on Agnes to four votes?

Is an indication you didn't like he train.

Actually it's an indication that I was surprised by the train. Hence, "where the hell did that come from?"

I am really worried by this last minute swing to Zak. It seriously strikes me as planned/contrived early on. Zak is playing Zakish. It feels like wolves predicted this, laid a few breadcrumbs, and jumped on him last minute. Maybe I"m over reading it, but we went from Zak seems weird to, Zak must die, in the last 30 minutes of the day. I'm inherently distrustful of last minute swings like that.

That is what it looks like when I don't like a train.

There seems to be one hell of a lot of putting words in peoples mouths going on.

[Lewwyn]

That's funny jabbbz it certain seems to me like this:

And lo, from beyond the horizon appears a train, and it's preparing to mow down Agnes. I mean seriously though, where the hell did that come from? In 3 pages we went from one prodding/point making vote on Agnes to four votes?

Is an indication you didn't like he train.

Actually it's an indication that I was surprised by the train. Hence, "where the hell did that come from?"

I am really worried by this last minute swing to Zak. It seriously strikes me as planned/contrived early on. Zak is playing Zakish. It feels like wolves predicted this, laid a few breadcrumbs, and jumped on him last minute. Maybe I"m over reading it, but we went from Zak seems weird to, Zak must die, in the last 30 minutes of the day. I'm inherently distrustful of last minute swings like that.

That is what it looks like when I don't like a train.

There seems to be one hell of a lot of putting words in peoples mouths going on.

I suppose I can agree to that. I still feel like the tone specifically using "hell" implies that you didn't approve. But I can accept your explanation. I still don't like the post though because its a post one might use to set up, a vote switch, which in the end you did. In particular the way you make that post unprompted and its not connected to anything else.


That plus your attack on me which throws a lot of shit at the wall still has me unconvinced of your innocence, and none of that required me putting words in your mouth.

[Jabbz]

You are somehow under the impression that I needed an "excuse" to change my early day one vote to something more meaningful. That is absurd at the very least. Does that mean that this

It's a good thing you have almost a full day to decide whether or not to move your vote. God forbid you accidentally vote for someone who actually gets lynched.

was a setup for you to switch your vote to me? Of course not. You made an observation, you got a response that struck you as odd, and you switched from Gaz to me. Based on the post where you voted Gaz, you didn't seem to think he was scum then, any more than I thought Qg was scum when I voted for him. Her. Whatever.

[Jabbz]

Anyway, I'm off to sleep. Catch you all in the AM.

[zakalwe]

Please cite where I stated that scum actively want a d1 mass claim.

Yeah, I can't provide that citation. That was me reading into your posts, where you said that scum were the only ones who would benefit from it. As noted, Agnes was more explicit about it, saying scum would be happy to go first.

Agnes has already covered the fact that precisely 0 of those 40 games of precedence are relevant in this situation, one of role madness AND disassociation of roles / alignment.

That's an overstatement by Agnes, though. We have had games where the setup process is 1) randomly assign roles, and 2) randomly assign alignments. But the way I'm parsing things, this is not one of those games. Instead, we have been warned that scum could have townish roles, and vice versa. There's a pretty significant difference, in my mind. The setup is still designed with alignments and roles considered holistically, in combination. At least that is my assumption.

So that's why I find it suspicious when I sense that people want to dismiss any and all claims as null tells, and establish a "nobody should bother to claim" precedent. It's entirely possible that a mass claim would tell us very little. But the "please God no mass claim" vibes are suspicious. (Also, it's a convenient thing to talk about to establish a presence in the thread. But I guess I'm equally guilty of that, so far. Meta talk is still better than no talk.)

[zakalwe]

Give it time, I'll do something scummy like I usually do, and then I'll revert to your favorite mode.

You called it!

If Agnes is innocent, then your jump off her train just as it was leaving does look scummy. You should hop back on.

[zakalwe]

I'm not accusing Fenn of trying to mislynch Dtay on a joke vote. I was thinking that Dtay's self-confessed lack of time for this game means that an argument could be made that he is a least-bad choice for a Day 1 lynch, and I was interested to see if Fenn would make it. I'm trying to do my best Novice impression, I'm not advocating a Dtay lynch.

Dang, wish I would have seen that. scumhunt: activate, indeed

Are you complimenting Gazglum on his scumhunting prowess here, or chiding yourself for failing to activate?

Rereading it now, it looks like an odd retreat.

[Lewwyn]

You are somehow under the impression that I needed an "excuse" to change my early day one vote to something more meaningful. That is absurd at the very least. Does that mean that this

It's a good thing you have almost a full day to decide whether or not to move your vote. God forbid you accidentally vote for someone who actually gets lynched.

was a setup for you to switch your vote to me? Of course not. You made an observation, you got a response that struck you as odd, and you switched from Gaz to me. Based on the post where you voted Gaz, you didn't seem to think he was scum then, any more than I thought Qg was scum when I voted for him. Her. Whatever.

The idea is that scum like to softpedal their attacks or changes of direction. I don't think it is absurd.

Of course it wasn't a setup, but it was an attempt to gauge you a bit.

Honestly, I'm not sure where I stand on you right now because some of your defense actually reads pretty villagery (more in character with last game). I still think your OMGUS vote on me was weird and bad though. But I'm willing to consider other options.

[novice]

If I as scum have a claim given by mod that won't hurt my position, and townies want me to claim, I have no compunctions about doing so, personally.

I do believe you're one of the outliers on the "willingness to claim" scale.

Werewolf 37 Notes:

This role madness, with some mildly atypical mechanics:

- Some players may have Active Abilities and/or Passive Powers. Active Abilities are day or night actions which can only be initiated via PMing them to the GM (Bobchillingworth), or Brick if Bob isn’t around. Only one Active Ability may be used by a given player each night (or day, if a player has multiple day Abilities), unless specified otherwise. There may be additional limits on when or how often a player may use them. Passive Powers are player attributes which are always in effect

- Roles might be repeated; don't expect you are the only ___ (Insert Role Here).
- Alignment and roles are separated, so scum might have a more village role and vice versa.
- Players can use their abilities on themselves unless specified otherwise in their role PM.
- The only information revealed when a player dies is their faction’s name and role title- no information is provided concerning their specific abilities

This is what Bob wrote about the setup. It doesn't read as "go ahead and claim, scum" to me. Not to take "outguess the mod" too far, but notice that Bob has copied Commodore's "alignment and roles are separated" phrase, but Commodore actually implemented that by sending out separate alignment and role pms, which Bob didn't. I think it's fair to say that Bob designed the game he had in mind, and then added some disclaimers here to warn people about thinking a mass claim would solve everything.

I don't see "how townies claim", for example, as a) being something with much consistency to it but also more importantly b) being something that varies from game to game. How would you claim this game any different from a normal one?

That's an odd thing to ask when you're simulatenously arguing that this game is unique out of the 40 games we've had so far.

So it does feel like you're making light of the issues scum would have with claiming, but it is consistent with your general attitude. In general though you give off this feeling of feigned nonchalance. I'm publicly disbelieving you and you're just shrugging it off. The thing that gives me pause however is that you gave me that same vibe last game, as town.

My only other suspect at the moment is Goreripper, whose vote for me was pretty bad, I think. And no elaboration has been forthcoming.