WW37- For Whom the Bell Trolls

[Shadeun]

This town is an angry one.

I really see very little evidence and 2-3 different people playing defense to no ones satisfaction.

In fact, the conversation is so meta that you guys are debating the correct use of OMGUS/debating the randomness of day 1 voting because there has been no new information except the cult reveal overnight.

Question is, being noob, who do you recruit (if thats how it works) from town on night 1? How does this change their (the recruitee) interaction with others?

This is what I'll think about while I wait for the markets to close and I can go home....

[Mattimeo]

Matt, what's your take on Jabbz?

Mainly? Noise to signal ratio is much too high. Especially the bouts with Lewwyn that go precisely nowhere.

Will get back to you this afternoon if I can pull an actual read out.

[Mattimeo]

Question is, being noob, who do you recruit (if thats how it works) from town on night 1? How does this change their (the recruitee) interaction with others?

If cult recruits 1/day, unless cutting off the head removes the cult then it's impossible to win against it without multiple kills available.

We had no kills last night.
We can thus assume that if a cult exists, it either has a vulnerable head, or less than 1 recruit per day.

Of the roles that have been claimed, Goreripper had a 3-shot immunity to everything, and I have targetted immunity to everything. It's quite possible that the limiter to the 1/day thing is rampant immunity to night actions available to the village. Or, well, anyone who's not cult, given Goreripper.

Usually only effects of alignment change is that the target is informed via PM, and possibly given access to a group QuickTopic.
Of course, people might change their activities, who they're pushing for, etc, in face of their new loyalties (both new knowledge of who is on their team, and potential old knowledge of who *was* on their team).

[zakalwe]

Repost it now as Agnes, to preserve the chronology. Then wait for permission to delete the posts by Q.

You smurfs...

[Agnes The Orphan]

Agnes:
OMGUS - lit. Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)

Only perceived 'bad play' involved is basing a vote entirely* on the fact that they voted for you.

*One of the main reasons to claim OMGUS is to ignore any actual reasons they had to (mis?)categorise the vote as stemming only from revenge.


Phone while travelling to work. Not going to full respond to things 'til after that.

Matt, I know what it stands for. I also know how I use it - Oh My God yoU Suck (and this is scummy). I don't narrow that to whether you've voted me or not. For example, when Tasunke fakeclaimed as village in WW19, I OMGUS voted him, because it was a sucky/horrible move as town that I thought only scum would do. Another example, I would categorize a lot of the votes on novice in the previous game as OMGUS, as they were based around a perceived lack of play/contribution on his part.

[Bobchillingworth]

FUCK. Bob, can I delete that post (and this one), and repost them?

Sure.

[Jabbz]

You know you're fucked up, when you show up for your grad adviser session before class, and your professor takes one look at you and sends you home. I'm following the wifes advice and going to go back to bed. Something tells me I should never have left this morning.

[pindicator]

Matt, what's your take on Jabbz?

Mainly? Noise to signal ratio is much too high. Especially the bouts with Lewwyn that go precisely nowhere.

Will get back to you this afternoon if I can pull an actual read out.

How about town reads while you're at it.

@Jabbz - feel better

[Fenn]

Shadeun was right, this village howls for blood when they're not lurking.

Lewwyn, who are your other two suspects?

I would have liked to hear more from Gaz first, but I guess I should just get on with my top suspect.

Let's start with Fenn.

I have in particular three issues with Fenn. His opening salvo of posts and vote on me. Disappearing for almost the whole day 1. Then voting for novice for insinuating Commagore is scum rather than survivor, before deciding to vote with novice and lynch Commagore.

First:
The first paragraph is basically meta. The second as well. But the second paragraph actually comes to a conclusion that perhaps a light day 1 is a good idea? OK! Now where to vote? Let's vote for Lewwyn who said let's all talk less (in an attempt to start conversation). Contradictory? No problem, watch me disappear until the deadline.

You're going to have to point out where the contradiction is here, because I don't see it. I voted for you to see how you'd respond, since that post was the last one you'd made up until my post you took issue with. If every vote on Day 1 must be a grave act you might as well have pushed Gazglum!

Second:
He then comes back and makes some observations on the day which are basically summaries of what's happened. I'm not going to quote the whole thing. But its where he votes at the end that is interesting:

If you stretch much farther you'll pull a muscle novice. What was the point of this?

Yes Goreripper is probably the default lynch choice absent any strong lynch candidates (which I don't have), but this post is just bizarre.

The colorful description of novice talking about commagore here results in the vote for novice, but then it is followed up with BUT YOU"RE PROBABLY RIGHT! Contradictory? Forget about it.

This is just nonsense. I took issue with this specific attack on Commodore because it was scummy for novice to find Goreripper suspicious based off of the flavor in the OP, regardless of my opinions on Goreripper. You can't seriously believe that just because I found that argument bad that I have to go against every position held by novice.

Third:
I've made my feelings known that I don't believe commagore to be the best lynch. Fenn has the dubious honor of being the one to break the tie and lynch him:

Fuck it, Goreripper. I like Mattimeo's claim better than his.

And so Commagore the non affiliated seer is lynched.
Fenn remarks:

Goreripper's flip wasn't ideal (ie scum), but still a net positive for town. Though I doubt the scum would be too heartbroken over seeing a claimed seer die.

Net positive for town! Scum would be happy a claimed seer is dead too! Win-Win! Contradictory? I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

Zakalwe and Rowain have explained this, but Gore's posting was clearly antitown, and he had an expressed desire to work with scum. Even if he was telling the complete truth about his powers - and his flip mentioned nothing about his them - he still would have been a better lynch over Mattimeo, Gazglum or nobody at the time. We would have almost certainly had to lynch him at some point, may as well do it on a day when nobody else on the block looks scummy. And if he did have Seer powers it would be easy for him to trip up the town by claiming fake results, like you said.

Whether or not the Gore lynch was a good idea is at least partly a matter of opinion, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't yell "CONTRADICTION" as if it helps your argument. The only contradictions in my play are those you've invented; all you're doing is repeating it over and over again to make people think you're right.

I also want to clarify a bit here:

First:
[quote='Fenn' pid='529065' dateline='1426454939']

I might be reading the last bit of the second paragraph a bit wrong. But the thing that bugs me most is that Fenn puts a vote on me based on the idea that my "proposal" nobody discuss anything was serious. Now I spent the entire last game trying to get people to talk. I think that Fenn deliberately misinterprets my post and uses it as an excuse to place a vote on me. For reference here is the post:


The first part is talking about getting conversation started by doing something stupid. I proceed to give my version of stupid in the next paragraph. Personally I think that the point of the post is clear given the inherent "who's going to jump off the edge" preface to the idea. Given that Fenn's decision to vote for me hinged on that post, it feels like scum trying to find something to accuse someone of.

I was just looking for an explanation and wanting to see how you'd react to a vote on you; certainly I wasn't accusing you for making that post, there was obviously no way that anyone would want to lynch you just for that.

X-post with Gaz

What do you think of my Fenn suspicions?

I think its a good case. Fenn is on 11 posts, and doesn't have the 'I'm on holiday' excuse of Dtay. And his one post today,


Meta, then he starts considering my 'sangfroid' in hindsight. What does that mean Fenn? Are you arguing that I didn't care about dying? Scum care about dying as much as anybody, its the universal condition of mankind.

So he jumps onto me without bringing anything new to the table, and won't even place a vote. So yeah, Fenn would be one of my top suspects.

I'm saying you didn't care about which way the lynch went, as long as you weren't the one to hang. I know you didn't like the cases of Goreripper or Matt, but even if a no lynch was what you wanted that would have been within your power to achieve. If you voted Matt and somebody jumped on him at the last minute for the lynch, well, we'd have our Day 2 lynch target right there. I concede you might not have seen it the same way, I don't have a big scum lean on you. Honestly the Gazglum train looks mostly like scum trying to get credit for voting and participating by hopping on a convenient case.

Much as it tempts me to go for Lewwyn, novice looks worse - his defence against Gazglum's case is unconvincing and I don't like the way he voted for me - using the exact same argument as last time, except now there's a handy train to leap on.[/color]

[Fenn]

Oh, and:

OK I reread day 1 and I'm sorry to say, Gazglum, that it didn't leave me much wiser.
Although worst case, if the setup is cult-based there may be just Goreripper and one other scum present on day 1.

Hellooo, cult leader. How convenient that your scenario for there being a cult is an obviously implausible one - good way to claim later that there isn't a cult after all.

@zakalwe: Yes, the message had a lot more than the cult stuff, but to me it was all fluff - was there anything there you thought was significant?