WW37- For Whom the Bell Trolls

[Lewwyn]

And... I'm off again. I should be freer on Monady or Tuesday

[pindicator]

Anyone advocating no lynch is probably a cultist member. Cult members should be happy with no night kills and no lynches. More people to convert and the longer that happens the more likely they are unstoppable. SO far:

Rowain
Pindi
novice

have likely been converted to cultist factions.

Why do you find the nighttime messages credible?

[Agnes The Orphan]

No lynch is a terrible idea. I can't believe so many people are taking it seriously. No lynch implies you think village position is strengthened from night to night, rather than weakened.

That might be the case if we really were stopping each scumkill each night. But I sincerely doubt that's the case - maybe there's a cult, maybe the scum teams have other plans/methods for getting ahead. Regardless, we don't want to find out what they are.

[pindicator]

Well, since I missed you I'll go first:

Either the messages are from the GM, and I don't find the GM the most trustworthy person in the world.
Or the messages are from a player with an ability, and in that case without knowing the source I don't feel comfortable with the amount of credence it's being given.

[Agnes The Orphan]

You talking to me?

I'm not discussing those messages. I'm discussing the gamestate - Fenn's flip all-but-guarantees that we have a scum-faction of some sort. This faction will have some way of screwing us up, be it kills, conversions, or whatever. Unless we believe that whatever they're doing is being blocked each night, I don't think it's possible for no-lynch is more positive than negative.

[Jabbz]

4+4+2+2+1=13

You think everybody is scum, Rowain?

I could imagine a setup of 4 scum a + 4 scum b + 2 culties + 2 villagers.
of course it could also be 3 teams at 4 members each or 4 teams at 3 members.

I think the scumteams should be equal but maybe Bob had a different idea.

I really hope that Bob didn't leave only 2 villages, because if he did, that's as big a dick move as what MJW pulled. With two villagers, there is no way we can win, period. We're just here to be a backdrop to play out someone's convoluted power trip, and that's pretty not cool.

As to the no lynch =bad for town, Agnes you seem to be basing that on town losing people at night, which doesn't seem to be happening. Not saying I agree/disagree with the general idea, but your argument against it is off. From what I've seen town hasn't changed one bit since we started.

@the cult thing. I've never played in a game with cult, but I do find it interesting that were basing the entire idea off a highly questionable daily message that we do not know the source of.

[Agnes The Orphan]

As to the no lynch =bad for town, Agnes you seem to be basing that on town losing people at night, which doesn't seem to be happening. Not saying I agree/disagree with the general idea, but your argument against it is off. From what I've seen town hasn't changed one bit since we started.

The day is the providence of the village, the night is the realm of the scum. I think it's clear that Bob has changed that, but I don't think he's altered it fundamentally. If the scum can't kill in the traditional manner, they'll have some other mechanism of getting ahead. As I said in the previous post.

[pindicator]

You talking to me?

Sorry, I meant Lewwyn

[dtay]

Ok, back, gonna sleep, but thoughts. A lot are meta thoughts, but this game seems to pretty much require meta thoughts. So here's a meta post that's a list, which is scummy or something apparently. But I'm catching up and need to organize thoughts.

1) Besides catching egregiously scummy behavior (like blatantly contradicting one's self) I don't know how scumhunting is even supposed to work here. We have 1 confirmed scum team (Fascist), 1 very-likely extant team (whoever has the classic-red color), and then a constantly mentioned cult (could overlap with one of the above team). 2-3 teams seems very likely, and something crazy like 4 isn't ruled out. Hell, what's role madness without a SK too? Given this, each scum could very easily just hunt the scum who are not their own type. I... don't know how we're (where we is like maybe, as grim as only 3-4 of the rest of you) supposed to hunt in these conditions.

2) Let's make this worse - the sense I get from this village is the majority of you'll are scum. Maybe it's the weirdness of the game depressing participation, but the gut feeling I'm getting is a ton of people who have decided the daytime is just them and a bunch of other scum going through the motions. I'm comparing within an n of i guess 5 games here, but the hunting feels so much more an obligtion everyone is fulfilling.

3) I'm tempted to push for blowing up the setting and going mass claim. The obvious anti-village aspect to this is that it shows where the power roles are. Power roles that might just be invincible anyway... or have lots of available protection. BUT, anti-villageness is heavily mitigated by the possibility of multiple scum teams. Not only will these teams not be able to coordinate their claims with each other, but will also actively want to shoot/convert/whatever each other in the face. And we will get chances to catch people totally screwing up the claim.

4) In retrospect now that I've thought about it, (though I didn't vote for it d1 to be clear, just wasn't really participating), I think the goreripper lynch was a horrible idea. The people pushing it are high on my scum list. The village needed setting information. We needed a flip of SOMETHING. If the scum are as numerous as I think they are, we had a great chance of just randomly hitting one. Lynching the not-super-helpful but not-actively-harmful goreripper just shouldn't have been a priority. What goreripper WAS was very very hard to nightkill, and a risk to out scum. Out scum to the town, AND out scum to other-scum.

5) Nightkills. I think they're more likely to be getting blocked than they are to not exist. Of claimed abilities, all (unless I'm missing a 3rd claim somewhere) involve protection. That both provides an explanation of why there's a lack of deaths, and indicates that kills should be possible unless Bob is just throwing red herrings at us (possible, but hopefully not).

6) Yeah this post doesn't have many (any?) reads. See Point #1, it's hard. I need to reread to feel good at all about reads and knowing which player did what in what order. I'll get to it tomorrow around noon, and will be much more involved in general now that i'm back. Like I don't even remember who it was who claimed the jail-like ability and protected themself right now (I could obviously go look this up, but just giving an example).

[dtay]

Oh uhh, existence of cult. The messages feel like Commodore to me. Only read them once, but seem his style of writing. Given the messages themselves claim commodore is "alive", or at least still reporting, maybe he has posthumous message writing abilities? Someone (could be me, just not right now) should go compare it to some of his more flavorful civ reports or something, the end of pb13 and pb19 both have some good samples if I recall.