[PB26 Spoilers] Joey and Donovan play around in the muck

[GermanJoey]

Longwinded theorycrafting to follow....

[Donovan Zoi]

Thanks for the introduction, Joey! #teambanana4life

Just downloaded the mod and took a look around. I hope longwinded theorycrafting will be enough! In the meantime, I'll save my breath for the moment and peruse the mod in more detail tonite.

[GermanJoey]

Yeah, give it a few test games, it actually plays quite different from base civ. For example, early game tech ordering is much more open-ended now and less clear how to optimize (slavery is now at archery, BW is split into multiple techs, all food is at max 5 yield until you research the right 2nd-tier tech, etc), and that continues into the mid-game. Currency is much less important and the religious techs are far more important. I'm fairly confident that OR -> Monarchy -> Vassalage is still an extremely strong path to go down, even after the nerfs. Another example is that chopping is much more costly, as lvl 4 lumbermills are insanely strong.

Civ picks don't get starting techs but instead a trait, making some formerly verboten combos like Phi/Ind now possible. All UUs and UBs are now, in general, pretty good. Here's a shortlist of combos I've come up with that seem interesting to me, aiming to make maximal use of some of the new UBs:

• Alexander of Rome (Phi/Agg/Exp, half priced Forum (now +50% GPP, for a total of +117%) and Agg Praets, try to stack up a million great people in capital)
  
• Pericles or Lincoln of Germany (Phi/Ind/Cre or Phi/Ind/Cha, use new super Forge to rush some wonder and build up settled GE)
  
• Pacal of Arabia (Fin/Exp/Cre + Madrassa + Camel Archer, basically Fin plus cheap commerce multipliers)
  
• Sulieman of Arabia (Phi/Imp/Cre + Madrassa + Camel Archer, try to stack up as many great prophets as possible in capital, Imp helps expand)
  
• Churchill of Mongolia (Cha/Pro/Agg, new super Ger + Vassalage = instant lvl 4 units in classical era)
  
• De Gaulle of Egypt (Ind/Cha/Phi + Obelisk to rush stonehenge and mids for uber police state obelisks everywhere)
  
• Boudica of Celtia (Agg/Cha/Pro for instant lvl-4 Gaellics) (/Imp)
  
• Churchill of Khmer (Pro/Cha/Exp, half priced baray/granary + Cha happy)
  

There's also the possibility of just ignoring UU and UB synergy nonsense and picking, say, three great traits, e.g. imp + exp + cre for a REX monster or whatever.

[AdrienIer]

There's also the possibility of just ignoring UU and UB synergy nonsense and picking, say, three great traits, e.g. imp + exp + cre for a REX monster or whatever.

Imp/Cre/Exp India sounds terrifying

[GermanJoey]

It would be... but unfortunately, the Fast Worker got changed to only be available at machinery now, so its mostly just a combat unit I think. Actually, now that I think about it, hey might be very good for setting up lumbermills more quickly, which are completely insane in this mod...

[flugauto]

[Donovan Zoi]

^^ Wow, speaking of Lumbermills...

We can settle SE and still get both food resources. I still haven't had the time to look over the mod in great detail, so I will defer to Joey on any early game decisions re: leader etc. If there is a game style you are interested in playing, Joey, I am cool with it.

My time to devote to the game opens up greatly in mid-April, but I will add to the conversation where and when I can until then.

[GermanJoey]

Holy crap, that is LOT of forests!!! But, Xenu tells me the map has been checked by lurkers. Ok then!

Right now I see three options for where to settle:

1.) Settle 1SW, as you suggest, to get 3f tiles! Only 9 forests this way, though, and we lose a turn without actually accelerating our starting worker.
2.) I'm thinking that maybe settling on the rice is a good idea, two 5f tiles and 13 forests (same as SIP) but also a 3/2 capital tile... however, for some reason I think that rice and corns are literally the same now? I wouldn't cry about losing one 5f tile to get another in order to pick up +1 food at capital, but I don't want to waste a 6f tile. There's a weird mechanic where you don't get the full yields for farms/pastures until you research pottery/ah, and Krill might have normalized all food resources like he did with crab/clam/fish. Its actually been a few weeks since I've played a SP SMEGmod game.
3.) Settle on the sheep, also losing 1T but getting the 3/2 capital tile while ensuring that both of our foods are farmables, meaning that we have to detour less in early tech. This would be good if we're interested in a religion or want to make a beeline. This option also makes Pro more attractive since we'd want to beeline Pottery right out of the gate.

In any case, I'd like to see what our scout shows. Settling without fresh water (options 1 and 3) should be OK since we have 2 granary resources.

[GermanJoey]

Ok, so wet rice is indeed a 6/0/0 tile with Agriculture and Pottery, but sheep is only a 5/0/1 tile with AH. So, I think it's between settle options 1 and 3... I'm personally leaning towards 3, but I suppose it depends on what the scout finds.

another combo idea: Sitting Bull of Germany, Phi/Ind/Pro and essentially just ignore everything in the top half of the tech tree beyond writing, aiming to beeline MC and Feudalism and maybe even Machinery before math.

[AdrienIer]

Are you leaning more Sitting Bull, Lincoln or Pericles ?