[Spoilers] Ceterum Peter censet Carthaginem fore triumphatrix - Adrien + Miguelito

[AdrienIer]

Ok half the beakers is good. Although getting Lib in front of THH (plus Taj Mahal) would have some value in itself but more likely we wouldn't even get that far.

[Miguelito]

Everything's lost:




That's 15 knights + 5 chariots in range to hit TOS. We can have 2 muskets in there for defense + a bunch of junk, we can also hit with 4 cats, but it's all too little, too late. There's 5 more knights in the area

What's annoying: The banana tile flipped, giving him road access to Hulk, I thought that was covered by Barrow but hadn't really checked. Also, he has got Engineering, so he could move an axe with his 2movers, giving us no chance of attacking with spears. I think we throw the cats against his big stack and move everything else into TOS, where he will still eat us.
He could even realistically take over our island soon.

I feel really bad for being such an easy meal, otoh, I doubt anybody else in this game could have done much about a 20 knights force at this point in the game.

So I hereby concede this game to THH, I don't know if Al or Mardoc still have plans, but I don't see what could stop THH from winning it anymore.

Going to put the concession into the tech thread once he takes TOS, is that a correct proceeding?

I'll write up some final thoughts when I find time (and of course I'll keep playing while the other players want to go on). Overall, it's been a lot of fun.

[AdrienIer]

5t later and we could have had enough muskets to not get run over. We made a gambit with our tech path and lost. To come back to what you said in the PB25 thread I don't really think we built too many wonders, as phi and with both stone and marble it was beneficial to us in the end. What could we have build instead, more junk units ?

[AdrienIer]

Don't concede too soon, I think we should wait for lurker input on how Mardoc and AlHazard feel

[Miguelito]

Just the good news :






THH is dead last in GNP, poor guy

and our total spear+musket count is now higher than the number of Chinese knights in our territory (of course we are defending three fronts etc....)

[AdrienIer]

So next turn is GA time, good.

[Miguelito]

Opened the save to face the reality of TOS being lost, but WTF?




He razed Barrow first, but oh well. Even if it means the hammer falls down on Mardoc next, I'm very sure we take this? I can't see very well what's happening behind the diplo screen, but it seems like he's pulling his knights out.

Now, technically and by game rules, the offer seems illegal to me. Lurkers? Has this been discussed in THH's thread? I always thought it's stupid that cities that were fought over can't be subject of a peace treaty, but the rules is the rules.
Also, is it legal to first decline the offer, look around what happened without being obstructed by the diplo windo (e.g., F4, or find out if that gigantic stack's still in range) then reload the save and accept the deal (not that I could really imagine a world where I don't want that peace)?

[The Black Sword]

The usual format for concession is to say you want to concede in your thread. If all players want to concede then the lurkers can let you know. Posting in the tech thread tends to inevitably lead to the game's demise even if others want to play on.

Checking the game's rules, it seems city gifting is off so you should let THH know. I don't really like the rule myself but if you agreed it at the start, it's not really fair to the other two players to change it now.

I think it's generally accepted that you can decline an offer and look around(but not move anything for extra vision obviously) before reloading and accepting. One of the advantages of PBEM IMO.

[Miguelito]

Thank you very much TBS. Actually, a peace deal was completely out of my imagination, if this happens I refrain from concession (and gonna be more cautious with what I'm saying next time ).

Iirc, I saw through the diplo window that Hulk was empty. How about we PM THH that the offered deal is illegal, retake Hulk with a 2mover, and leave all his units untouched, +offer white peace? I'm off at work, but Adrien, do you want to look into the save to see if that's possible (of course you can also vote for continuing the war - after all, there must be a reason why THH wants that strange deal)

Also some thoughts :
- gift a map to Mardoc foe him to grasp better what's going on
- I strongly suspect that PS is better for us than Rep right now. We're rather low on pop and just don't have much food to feed specialists, at least during GA we want to work tiles anyways, the happiness issue could be addressed with barracks in Pfeffi and TOS, which are needed anyways, and we don't have forges yet so the relative production bonus is very high. It would also send a strong signal to THH. The beakers lost would be something like 15-30, no idea about maintenance right now
- if we get peace, no research before Oxford, lest maybe MC if we want forges finally (I'd rather build muskets)
- if we get peace, maybe wait 2-4 turns with GA, to regrow pop, at least a little?

[Miguelito]

Btw glad now we didn't get to build the MoM in Barrow . The HG is just the perfect wonder to get razed (moreso for EXP)