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I just meant that if we didn't need engineering for chemistry it would be a possibility, as a full military choice : grens and cannons eat everything you can send in their way. But the eco advantage of nationalism (taj) makes it the right choice after engineering IMO.
My greatest fear is that AlHazard is beelining nationalism for taj, use it to get a great person for a 18t GA and become a runaway
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OK, so I'll be needed in about a week then? Guess I'd better get fully up to speed with the game; could one of you send me the save and the password so I can take a look around? dreylinwillowbark at gmail etc.
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I'll forward you the save tonight, but you should also ask AlHazard to send you the save everytime.
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I've just come to the conclusion that, assuming that THH is intelligent (which I am assuming), we do not want peace with him. I'll explain that later when I'm on my computer.
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Alright now I see, the trick is that it's not just grens, but also cannons. That makes it an option after Engineering, yeah. Well, we can see if Taoism falls before we get to Engineering. If we believe we miss on the Taj the Chem path could be better.
For reference, tech costs are:
- Chemistry 1664 (1387 facturing in prereq bonus)
- MS 1849 (1541)
- Steel 2588 (2155)
Libbing Steel sure would be fun, but maybe that's too much of wishful thinking
Dreylin, great you can help out. I've got no idea right now if from 19th on I'll be able to play turns, but I hope it would be ok if I did? Anyway, good idea to have Al send you the saves, if you want to look into them and comment on game plans that's always very welcome 
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(April 10th, 2015, 09:08)AdrienIer Wrote: I've just come to the conclusion that, assuming that THH is intelligent (which I am assuming), we do not want peace with him. I'll explain that later when I'm on my computer.
yeah it's quite a mystery. I think he doesn't have enough to crush Mardoc right now (and it's possible he doesn't know that). With or without peace, we'll have to build a lot of military, though the ten turns would give me enough peace of mind to go for Oxford.
I'm very curious as to your conclusion why peace with him would harm us. If he comes back now with 20 knights, we are still half dead. If in 20t he comes back with 30, I think our chances would be better, particularly having Egineering's mobility bonus.
April 10th, 2015, 10:16
(This post was last modified: April 10th, 2015, 10:17 by AdrienIer.)
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The explanation will come in less than 2h  . And can you check that you actually sent the save to Mardoc yesterday ? And post that in the tech thread to let them know ?
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(April 10th, 2015, 09:58)Miguelito Wrote: Dreylin, great you can help out. I've got no idea right now if from 19th on I'll be able to play turns, but I hope it would be ok if I did? Anyway, good idea to have Al send you the saves, if you want to look into them and comment on game plans that's always very welcome
Well I always saw myself as emergency back-up; if you can play then no way I would take it from you. This is your game, and I'm just a late tag along.
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Ok I probably won't see it, or at least not be able to discuss, but you're in charge, so do what you think is best for us. But consider what it would mean for us to see 20 knights coming into Kiwi or TOS or Perrier or Emerald right now. Also, if we take Hulk back, but don't make peace, that should really piss him off (righteously). Also consider that he has fast roads to shuffle troops and we don't.
If we take back Hulk and make peace, it could be a good idea to pillage our road on the banana tile SW of the city, that way it's a little more difficult for him to move in on us if he wants to come back (alright, he'd have to bring two workers, might as well not be worth the effort.)
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So I'm slightly less certain that the best course of action is to stay at war with THH, but I still saw an argument in favor of staying at war with him that made me think.
You made a good case for trying to get peace ASAP, we get time to catch up on some important military techs and build up enough defenses to not be conquered so easily next time. It's pretty valid, and obviously we don't want conflict inside our territory (although we do have the great wall to help us with more GG if we fight in our borders). But there's an important factor that we've forgotten, and forgotten so much that we were VERY wrong when we hoped THH would go after Mardoc with his 20 knights.
That factor is that THH is a runaway. If he decides to focus on his empire he can (and has consistently done for the past 100t) be first in GNP, food and have a decent production, while maintaining the biggest army in the world (so no fear of being attacked). It's his game to lose, or almost because we still have some arguments. I've forgotten to put myself in his shoes these past 15t (or have done so only superficially). THH has seen the power graphs, he knows no one has a big enough army to contain 20 knights, even Mardoc. Therefore he now has to use his army. He must have seen something in the past 2t that made him change his mind as to where he should be sending his army. Whatever he does, our main chance at winning this is to stop him from doing what he wants to do. While he is the game leader he has the momentum. He chose the moment the war started, he now chooses to end it : assuming he knows what he's doing (I'm pretty sure he does, he's the game leader after all) this peace if beneficial to him in some way. Before we can even think of winning we have to slow him down. We have to disrupt his easy ride, get him out of his comfort zone and force him into difficult decisions. If we take the 10t peace and he goes after Mardoc, he probably has a chance to take several cities and become even more of a runaway. And then after 10t he's seen our power graphs rise and knows we're going after him. He has 10t to prepare : he'll finish off Mardoc without letting us hit him in the back. Without peace we can send numids his way and stack muskets in Hulk. He'll know he can't really take it back, yet won't be able to fully concentrate on Mardoc. Which is exactly what we've always wanted.
Therefore my plan is to use the uncertainty that came from the illegal peace offer to gain time, stay at war while appearing to want peace, take back Hulk, maybe ask for money in exchange for peace (a reasonable amount like 50-75g). If he accepts we've won money if not we've proven that we want peace : we can play a double game of appearing to want peace while forcing him to be more careful. Then when we're confident in our defenses we can stop pretending.
I don't know, I may yet end up peacing out to get some breathing space, but as long as everyone is so afraid of THH that they let him do exactly as he wishes I don't see this ending well.
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