Secrets of the Deep: Northstar (Lanun) vs. Mardoc (Svartalfar)

[Ellimist]

Yeah, this sort of weirdness comes up sometimes. There are a few permutations that I'm aware of that don't fit that scenario exactly, but the common element is that issuing orders while the game is paused can cause unintended/unexpected things to happen afterward.

One alternative in this situation is that he didn't use a paused-save, but ended turn(which pauses the game) and then clicked on the warrior icon in his city screen. That will have the same effect the next time he opens a save. Usually players have no reason to issue orders while a pbem game is in the "paused at end of turn" mode, so I consider this less likely but it's technically possible.

[DaveV]

My rule to avoid glitches: always exit to main menu to load a game. Using the Ctrl-L hotkey to load a saved game (especially a save from a different PBEM) seems to lead to trouble. Following this rule has let me play multiple PBEMs without any (known) issues.

My theory: Ctrl-L doesn't initialize everything it should, and stuff can leak over from one game to another.

[Qgqqqqq]

Hang on, so you're saying no warrior was built?

I was actually asking Northstar here. As in, did you receive a warrior from this mix-up or not.

Interesting explanation, Ellimist.

[Aurorarcher]

According to his demos pictures, yes, he got the warrior.

[Ellimist]

My rule to avoid glitches: always exit to main menu to load a game. Using the Ctrl-L hotkey to load a saved game (especially a save from a different PBEM) seems to lead to trouble. Following this rule has let me play multiple PBEMs without any (known) issues.

My theory: Ctrl-L doesn't initialize everything it should, and stuff can leak over from one game to another.

I'm not sure if exiting to the main menu actually helps with this. I'll test it sometime.

Hang on, so you're saying no warrior was built?

I was actually asking Northstar here. As in, did you receive a warrior from this mix-up or not.

Interesting explanation, Ellimist.

Yeah I made a few assumptions based on available data. Specifically this screenshot:

It shows his warrior was only one turn away from completion.

Edit: Good catch Auroarcher.

[Northstar1989]

It's difficult to explain in full. It can happen if you save your game after ending turn and then load that save. I encounter it sometimes when I do that for screenshot purposes.

Wait- how could loading a save after ending turn affect the save generated from ending the turn itself?

The workaround that I've found is to load my next save twice consecutively after doing that. Any weirdness that happens will occur the first time you load a new save after loading an end-of-turn save. The second time you load a "normal" save there won't be any persisting issues.

I don't understand this at all. What's more, I don't remember doing anything like you described for this save...


Regards,
Northstar

[Northstar1989]

He saved after ending turn. It might have been on an earlier turn from this game. It might have even been one of his other games. This created what I'll call a "paused-save." The age or origin of the paused-save doesn't matter, only that it exists.

• At some point yesterday, he loaded a paused-save. Most likely, that save was made immediately after his city (in that game) had finished building something(anything.)
• The game would have immediately asked him what he wanted to build next in that city, and he would have had to choose something to make the pop-up go away. He chose a warrior.
• The game that he loaded, however, was paused and production could not be changed to warrior. So nothing happened.
• However, the game remembers that he wanted to change production in city #1 to a warrior. It hasn't forgotten.
• At some point after that, he loads a save that isn't a paused-save. It might have been immediately, it might have been hours later.
• Immediately when the save loads, the game carries out all of the orders that he told it to do in the paused-save. LOTS of weirdness is possible here, such as revolting to civics, changing your research, or reassigning citizen micro.
• Northstar didn't notice his build queue had been overwritten. The build progress for the warrior was not overwritten though, and his city had already completed 7/8 of the warrior build. So the warrior was completed that turn.

I don't think this sort of thing is a fixable bug. It's tied into the way that the game processes player actions and results from accessing the game in an unexpected way. Also, I've investigated a few potential exploits involving this and so far believe that is not exploitable. (locked civics/units will be reverted or prevented, beaker and hammer costs are not circumvented, etc.)

The solution for this is either:
(a) Don't load(or create) paused-saves.
or
(b) If you do, load a regular save afterward, then immediately load it again before continuing to play.

That actually makes sense. I did save after ending turn in one of my other games that day... I didn't know it could cause such weirdness...


Regards,
Northstar

[Northstar1989]

According to his demos pictures, yes, he got the warrior.

I got the Warrior the next turn. I did not complete it the prior turn. Somehow, the progress on the Scout was dropped and my city completed a Warrior instead...


Krag, any chance I could ask Mardoc for a re-do? I had intended to complete a Scout first on the chance that I would get an Insane trait-swap (which I may still get) as well as in case anything happened to my first Scout...


Regards,
Northstar

[Qgqqqqq]

To be clear, it's only a turns production. In your place, I would just eat it. But you do have a case for asking for a reload.

[Kragroth]

According to his demos pictures, yes, he got the warrior.

I got the Warrior the next turn. I did not complete it the prior turn. Somehow, the progress on the Scout was dropped and my city completed a Warrior instead...


Krag, any chance I could ask Mardoc for a re-do? I had intended to complete a Scout first on the chance that I would get an Insane trait-swap (which I may still get) as well as in case anything happened to my first Scout...


Regards,
Northstar

Yes, a request for a redo is justified in my view.