Clan 9 From Outer Space

[Qgqqqqq]

Vague comparison notes:

Players:	Cities:	Workers:	Population:	GNP:	Food:	Hammers:
Q	10	16	54 (49.6% of world)	55 (48gpt)	157	80 (75% of 75% hammers doubled = 125 real hammers)
Dreylin	4	??? (<6?)	~22 (20% of world)	86 (~116gpt - prob. research currently, modifier ~135% when gold)	58	68
Northstar	5	??? (<4?)	16(?) (17.5% of world??)	42 (40gpt (?) - big culture values, but prob. researching and high gpt)	56	36
Kragroth	3	??? (<5?)	13(?) (12.5% of world??)	53 (~56gpt, presuming current max research - utterly unconfirmed)	39	28

A bunch of it is fudged, but largely should be very accurate (and generally more favorable than reality; overestimating their gpt).

13t later:

Players:	Cities:	Workers:	Population	GNP	Food	Hammers	Land
Q	16	23	90	169	267	199	147 tiles
Dreylin	7	???10ish?	~39	75	121	73	119 tiles
Kragroth	4	???<5	~29	61	60	45	79 tiles
Northstar	5	???<3	27	61	68	~45	90 tiles

[Qgqqqqq]

Thinking things through on mana/shaman. With no xp civics (likely) shaman get 1 free promo, which I'm pretty clearly going to want to spend on mobility. Exception is SotC city, which will get 1 promo for mama spheres.

Hence, I'm going to have two groups of shaman, those who come with one promo (or get the 2xp by virtue of time) and those with only the free promos.

Mana from palace:
Chaos/Nature?
Body
Fire

Built Mana:
Body
Enchantment
Entropy (shrine)
?

Thus, shaman currently start with just body. Opening up another mage spell is unreasonable (in terms of units realistically being able to take it), so I think the choice is between making the node enchantment or entropy. Entropy requires researching necromancy, which is beakers otherwise not spent, however in all other aspects it is superior to enchantment. Enchanted Blades benefits less from having more shamans know it, but Rust increases in power the more units that can take it.

Other adept spells to consider:
Fair Winds
Floating Eye

Floating Eye is the only one worth considering. But it takes an expensive tech, forces me to split SotC adepts between Eyes, Enchanters and rusting, which is just a bit too much lack of focus.

Huh. Well that made that easy. Entropy it is, then.


Any thoughts, Bob? In particular, my main worry is I'm underrating the rate of natural XP accumulation, and thus diversifying is a better tactic than I'm giving it credit for.

[Qgqqqqq]

So, last turn I declared on Northstar, and moved into his territory with a single galley carrying a single warrior. I know the man's paranoid, so I was hoping for some defense reassignments towards the coast/lots of naval tiles lost. However, Northstar decided to react a bit more panick-y :






Words. Cannot. Describe. How much I'm laughing right now!

1 Galley! Sure, it could contain 4 units, but his defense is (weirdly) composed of thanes/zealots, who probably could've run in in time! Not to mention they're packing promotions and shock is easy to get! An examination of the power graph would probably also show a SoK dip which, combined with my wonder building, might hint ever so slightly that I'm not exactly rearing for a fight right now.

And as is? One warrior! One. Warrior.


And it gets worse! Because of where he's kicked me to (same place as last time, heh), the galley can now blockade his whole Heron Throne city, meaning he still has to build a couple of drown or research sailing for his own galley in order to stop me. I'm not even sure if he'll do it in the 14t before Sanctuary ends.

Speaking of which, the timeline for Sanctuary finishing is now about the time I was earlier planning on invading. Not entirely sure if I'll do that anyway - depends what way his power graph moves - but I've got a city dedicated to axe production anyway, so we'll see.


You can also see Dreylin's revolts. He informed me that he was 1t off BP - boy that sucks I suppose that puts us 2-1 in devastation (presuming he didn't get GC), though definitely 1t on both is harsh. Anyway, that may be what he was saving the Aristocracy revolt for, though why he'd try fit both in his capital (and how he got so close) is a mystery. He was quick to mention SoK to me...I wonder when he revolted.


Anyway, I moved up a galley near Dreylin:


I offered Clam for Enchantment Mana. I wonder if he'll get what I mean or not...anyway, basically a simple threat. If he gives me Enchantment mana (which I doubt) I'll go away and leave him alone (and also rush to get as many shaman out as possible, because that'll give mean I can probably avoid having to devote my own node to it if I move fast enough). If not, I'll declare war, pillage his clams and blockade for as long as possible. I expect him to refuse, it's what I'd do in his place. But hey, maybe he thinks I've a unit in the galley to nab his worker (I wish ), and values them all enough to pay up. Who knows?

Maybe it's not the right decision, all told. It'll certainly cause more resentment, and escalate tensions in the region. But honestly, I'm happy if he wants to focus on getting galleys out now - that'll slow his development here long-term, and reduce his long-term ability to project force onto this entire region, as well as distracting a decent-ish city of his. And it takes two galleys to reliably kill one on the offense (not to mention mine has C1), anyway.

Bigger worry is him sending troops along by land to hit my south. But I have a large number of units in that area (including a 6-promo Rantine) after the Kithra Kyeil scare, and 4t of warning if he gives up a promo to mobility (more otherwise). I'm not worried.

Besides, it feels quite fun to do a HidingKneel on everyone. Not quite at war with the world yet, but working towards it!


6 Kilmorphian bruisers later, we have a big-lighthouse




Already worth 36bpt. Meant to mention it earlier, but after the first 4 cities, I only have two others I plan to found off the coast. So yeah, this is a coastal map. Which makes me doubly fond of the setup - we still have the coast prevalence, but naval dominance isn't quite so devestating, as the main core can't be targeted (+seas are not shared, + all the canal shenanigans + fun island setup. I don't think there's a better natural-looking mirrored map out there ever made, tbh. Huge cred to DaveV!) Also delays coastal wonders/stuff, which I think is a positive (as map design, not as a advantage for the setup).

Anyway. Point being, GLH is going to be huge. Very happy with my timing this time round, not so ridiculously early as in the duel, but fits well into the slot of post-Kilmorph/island timings. Any earlier and the cost to expansion of low-hpt islands and distracting cities onto wonders would have been too much. Any later and a lot of commerce would be delayed/islands delayed and growth lost.


Any requests from the punters?

[spacetyrantxenu]

I don't know anything about FFH and have never played or followed a game, but this seems interesting so I'm reading your thread (haven't read the others). One question, how are you apparently so far ahead of everyone? I'm just judging by score and the ridiculous amount of population you listed a few posts back -- with only four players that's a huge lead.

Also, blockading the moai city,

[Bobchillingworth]

North never fails to surprise (and amuse).



Entropy mana is def. what you want on most shamen, especially since it will take extra casts to affect Dreylin's units, but if at all feasible you should be getting it from the Veil shrine so that you aren't forced to research Necromancy.


Mind mana has some utility too, btw. Inspirations are a good way for Shamen to pay back their maintence costs while they compile exp.


I wouldn't be too quick to emulate HK's "declare on the world" approach- that managed to earn him the best-coordinated dogpile in RB history (with AI diplo, no less!) and lost him the game :P

[Bobchillingworth]

Oh also I bet you could get Kragroth to give you metamagic mana if you offer both nature and fire.

[Ellimist]

You lost your chance for an amphibious surprise attack, though.

I don't know anything about FFH and have never played or followed a game, but this seems interesting so I'm reading your thread (haven't read the others). One question, how are you apparently so far ahead of everyone? I'm just judging by score and the ridiculous amount of population you listed a few posts back -- with only four players that's a huge lead.

The key thing to understand is how different each of the different civilizations are. Leader and civ selection in BTS has a MUCH smaller impact than it does in FFH or EitB. So it's sometimes possible for one player to run away with the game in a way that is rare in BTS.

On a very watery map, for example, the Lanun will probably dominate. If the map is heavily forested, it will favor the elven civs. On a desolate map, the Infernals will have an advantage.

In this game, they started with all of the first-era technologies. Q picked a civ that normally struggles with research, but is otherwise quite powerful.

[Old Harry]

A flying camera shot of the known world would be nice...

[Qgqqqqq]

A flying camera shot of the known world would be nice...

Stitched? Might be a bit of work, but I'll give it a go.


Bob, the point is wanting to have it free so they're able to cast from the get go, rather than waiting for 2xp. I considered Mind, but ultimately don't think it's worth it. It's another mana tech, after all, and it detracts a bit from the ability of the adepts to get their spheres/promotions.


What Ellimist said, as usual. I'll expand that a bit, though. In FFH, yields are (generally) higher - farms give more food almost from the get go, certain higher yield resources are available earlier (calender), and developmentally, boosts that for BTS only come once the game is decided are available extremely early. Conversely, the cost of expansion is greatly increased, with settlers costing some 145 quick hammers. That hammer cost, then, becomes the primary limiter on expansion, especially because (generally) buildings have been substantially nerfed.

In this game, I'm EXP and none of my rivals are, so that gives me a big leg up there. But my civ (the Clan)'s biggest advantage is that they can build a building called a warrens which essentially doubles all units built in there. It costs 120h, so there's a large setup cost, but once it's there it quickly speeds up production (especially of settlers/workers) considerably.

Now all that is the case in a normal game. They're a powerful civ, but several aspects keep them from becoming overpowered - the large setup cost of warrens delaying production and essentially pushing back useful production by 20t, the considerable tech requirements to get the expansion machine up and rocking over (education for cottages, mining/agriculture/calender for essential improvements, masonry for warrens, and so on), and the tech hole/low tech rate that the BAR(barian) trait gives.

This game, though, was played one era in, and that setup nullified the Clans disadvantages in ways that are both obvious and subtle. Most obviously is that I started the game with pretty well all the techs the Clan can possibly need. Even now, whilst I've benefited enormously from Drama/Sailing/Sanitation, none of them are essential in the way Ancient Chants, or Agriculture is. That's true for everyone, of course, but it means more to the civ for which that is normal the biggest disadvantage. It also meant that I was able to get a warrens out in the capital at an absurdly early date (t10-15, I forget exactly), because of a combination of Godking (think Beauracracy, but slightly worse) and Archery-boosted chops. This has meant that I've only built one non-warrens boosted unit in the entire game, and I don't expect that to change. That was how I was able to get 3 cities around when my opponents got two, and it's all snowballed from there. Others had the same advantages, sure, but none had anything as good as warrens to build.

So I had considerable advantages. And I've had a pretty good run of picking up other advantages, winning the Drama bard for sanitation (+1f on farms), and getting a tad lucky with the map.

I also think I've played well, though. There's a few points I'd note, there. Firstly going worker first (even though we started with a free one) helped me get ahead of the development curve so that I was in a better position even before second cities. Secondly, the decision to plant cities close together, especially early on, which enabled the endless tile sharing and efficient improvement-building that followed. The decision from t0 to go after Drama - sure, it was a bit of a blunder on my opponents side that I was able to secure it, but that would never have happened if I hadn't gone fast and hard for it from the get go. Generally good grasp of meta and opponent-watching (which helped me know, for instance, that only Dreylins power did I need to be afraid of). Good macro, generally - there's not many mistakes I regret this game (Pagan Temple, eclectic priest hiring, suboptimal Barb Peace/FtH choices, a touch too much paranoia, one or two cities, a touch too little military escorts) and none of them are "big" ones like tech path, economy choice, prioritization of resources, and so on.

Which is not to say I've played brilliantly, but I do think I've played the best this game. Dreylin has made a sterling effort and a great first game, but I've noticed a few moves I think were suboptimal or I disagreed with - largely stemming from a lack of experience, of course. (Not to mention bad/suboptimal leader/civ.) The less said about the other two the better.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Cool, thanks for the review. Interesting to get a nice generic overview of the game and how it differs from what I'm used to.