[SPOILERS] Muffin's spoiler thread of delicious baked goodness and half baked ideas

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

No worries - I guess it should have been obvious to me that you guys would have tried to add the ability to allow the save attachments. Zipping isn't too bad, there are worse things that could happen.

I'd be interested if people agreed with my analysis of chances of a win in the lurker thread. You can see my position completely, and basically my plan of action... Hold! I am pretty close to a Dom victory if I am allowed to grow - three civs worth of land...

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

So an update, whilst I am quiet at work.

I am still at peace. Retep has done 2 turns where he could have positioned to attack and he has not done - I think I am safe next turn as well. He is still roading around the cornflakes city he took towards me. He also managed to get peace with cornflakes 2 turns ago too.

However his GNP is going through the roof... I think he must be on a massive wealth push. Now he didn't attack the first turn he could, his best chance is probably rushing me ASAP at rifles. He hasn't got them yet but is only probably 1-2 turns away. Tech alone without wealth builds I am about 6-8 turns away. He may be pushing for Cav. I can play v Cav with rifles and phracts. Hopefully should be able to hold v a mass upgrade.

I think I will probably be able to hold an attack now unless I face mass drafting and whipping and a dual front war. I am now building muskets to defend the cities I border cornflakes with. This should dissuade any jan action. I hope he is playing for second - essentially I am quite happy to leave him alone. He has gone back to beuro, and I am still massively propping his happiness levels up. I will probably cancel two of them and propose 2 happy resources for the fur that I lack... Unsure whether it is worth the risk. I have stopped giving him routes now in merc. I don't want to be a target as I am sure retep would jump in.

Still unsure whether I should just start a war with retep. I can raze a city with my phracts no issue hidden from him (unless he has a spy or city visibility on me) and if I put my 3 movers in the city I should be able to hit another city too. But with high cultural defence it would probably fail and be a waste of good units.

I am first in most demos, although I am GA inflated. I also do have 900k troops to reteps 750k. I am trying to avoid whipping now combat is not imminent it seems - this is helping the long term plan.

Bob is still a pain in his island fort. 2 lbs 2 pikes 2 skirms in a castles hill city. I have 2 trebs there but it is slow work. There will be 2 more there in 2 turns. When I have the 4 there I will also have 6 phracts. The top one currently has 25% odds on the top defender. Should not be too long until I break through. I need to soon too - war weary is high, maxing out my happy cap in most cities. Also the old Bob cities will lose their mali culture unhappy.

I have now the heroic epic and moai - the moai especially I should have got earlier, but that city was put back massively from the Jowy attack. Probably should have built the moai before the forge though (I think I was waiting for stone). The HE waited until now as the city was cranking out too many units. I have been in war for all but 3 of the Turn from around 200BC. I am surprised my Eco has not crashed actually. My whip heavy play is really suited to small GLH powered cities keeping excessive war weary low.

Other plan is to get the mids. Currently they will finish the turn of the GA. I need to get that down a turn, then I can free swap to rep. Happy should not be an issue by then as Bob should be dead. That will be worth about 100beakers a turn with mercantilism and all my specialists in cities. I think it is worth pushing for.

I have fortified most of my border cities. I don't think any will be falling too soon. My west with Burbank and crashing is a bit exposed, but my phracts can provide a mobile defence v Knights quite adequately.

GA wise, I will be able to get another out about 2-5 turns after the end of this one, with a small possibility of a duplicate GP. Basically if I work it so new New York births the next GP then full out war can make another very quickly.

Embarrassingly, I am probably a bit short of workers (without the game in front of me I am unsure how many I have). I razed Jowy land pretty hard to keep pace with tech, and am paying for it now. At least the Bob land I took over quick enough to keep mostly intact.

I have 2 more cities that I can plant easily. 1 3 tiles east of bobs cap, and another between Jowy and Bob lands for a flood plain and more tiles worked. It looks like retep is trying to plant for a flood near his cornflakes capped city too.

I am cautiously optimistic about my outlook here. I think the longer an attack is delayed the harder it will be to overcome my large land/food/prod advantage, and soon probably GNP advantage when I grow the Bob cities properly.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Bob is dead? Report!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Ok Spacetyrant, because you asked so nicely, here is a massive screenshot dump from last turn, which I just reopened and grabbed. It is rather hard to get work out the best way to do it, but here goes. I am being helped by the slower turn pace here now and in pitbosses. I still feel bad that I haven't found time to read GJs PB22 thread! I don't know if you Americans are aware but we are in the middle of an election campagin, and I am a rather big fan of politics, helping out the local party a fair bit too. But back to the game...

So yes, biggest news is Bob is dead. His island city that he stole off flakes very early on was a massive pain. I couldn't get any galleys out there until I had taken cities on that watermass (I completely forgot until it would have been slower that TVXQ channeled the waterways) so by the time I got there it was a fortification nightmare, with walls and a castle, pro longbows and sitting on iron so a few pikes too... I have had a few phracts and trebs on there a while slowly bombing the defences down, but last turn I landed enough units to take - 6 phracts and 4 trebs, enough phracts for 1 for each defender and 4 trebs to do enough collateral. Sure enough, my first attack was at 90% odds and then all 99%ers.

This is a major bonus to me as I was experiencing rather bad war weary, and also culture penalties in all of bobs old cities. The cap at size 12 was getting 6 unhappy from it. It has been rather crippling during the GA where I was really wanting to grow. Although I can't blame the unhappy too much on the war - I have got rather extreme whipping unhappy. South park is at 86 turns, and all my old core cities save the cap are running at around 60 turns of whipping unhappy also. THe other bonus is those 2 island cities for 3 island cities total for lovely ICTRs.

So empire wide shots - Bob's old cities.

So there are 2 island cities. His cap which is a great commerce site. Bulgagi, Lotte, Kimchi and Story seller and good commerce sites. TVXQ, Psy, Linda park, and Lee young will be hammer sites. Unsure what to do with AKOM.

I captured a lot of these at rather high population and so was able to whip out courthouses in a lot of them right off the bat. Before building it in Bob's old cap it was costing about 20gpt... Crazy maitainence costs here. Worth it though, there are a lot of mature towns that I have captured here. Enough actually that if I get to free speech it may be worth a civic swap out of buero if it didn't cause anarchy. Bob's old cities are fairly nice as It gives me a good single border city in TVXQ which I can fortify, although it can be hit by 2 movers from the fog in his empire. He doesn't have any cities on the water which makes a lot of those cities feel safer too from possible amphibious landings (after my major cock up v Jowy I will not repeat that mistake)

The northern cities are a little open to cornflakes, and despite the small garrison that I left up there he could probably overrun there, land in some of bobs older cities... However now I have muskets too the jans are a lot less scary. Once I put a few in each of the border cities I will be happier. I guess he knows that he cannot compete with my production currently. Maybe he is trying an outside culture shot? Although he has a long way to go for that. With our OB each turn I am running the phract up to spot a possible stack although there is nothing. He is unnerving me improving the land around my city, but maybe it is a return for all the help I am giving him...

I imagine flakes is rather reliant on that still after all the drafting he did.

Here are the Jowy/HAK cities, they are actually less productive because of the long war that was fought over them.

With planned Pikri, 399 opts and Returning I have made commerce cities. His cap I have made a hybrid city, and Fall in and crashing hammer cities. Fullout war I have made into a GP farm. It's not the best site, but 3 lakes and a corn isnt bad. Maybe returning would be better, but nevermind. My new beverley hills will be hammer.

We have decent cultural borders here, but Retep has the choke city here. Defending this area might be awkward if he breaks through with 2 movers. The cities aren't as mature and he could run rings around me.

And now the core.

So Arlen is now a HE city.

It has been held at a fairly small size due to whipping unhappy and the war weary, although I am now getting farms for it to grow out a little more. I almost made Bob's Linda park my HE city, but I felt that was a little more exposed, and this I could get running much sooner. I have a town on the banana in the shared BFC of Arlen and New New York. I am unsure whether to plantation this or not. I have not currently as I have had other things to do with the workers although shortly I will need to make a decision. My gut says to plantation and give to Arlen to work, but that can be done in a bit. Workshops aren't too productive atm as I don't feel safe out of slavery.

Bikini Bottom now has the moai

I definitely should have built this before the forge... Whoops. It would have been up much sooner too if it wasn't for the Jowy capture too. I probably would have gone for this rather than getting many units from here, building with whip overflow.

South Park

Is actually struggling for decent squares to use now. Another part of the reason why I want to go FS>beuro. There won't be a penalty for the cap not using the town. Not too much of an issue atm as it is suffering from happy limits quite badly (86 turns) but it has done its job. It is a hybrid mess atm.

New New York

This one again is starting to be less useful as a long term city. Another helper/sharing city that is becoming a little more irrelevent. It will pop anther GP before Fullout. I am relying on the RNG that I will have different types to push my GA! It again is a bit of a hybrid mess, though I will commerce it out shortly.

Then less interesting cities are Dimmsdale, Pallet and Quohog as commerce sites. Burbank and the new passadena as hammer sites.

The cap

It isn't too special atm really. Whipping for war nessecities and the war weary have kept it small. I would imagine both Reteps and Cornflakes caps are better. Indeed I have no NW here, no academy or anything. Argueably Bob's cap was probably nicer before I took it. It is probably worth a OU if that is needed although Retep is lacking edu too, we are both pushing heavy military here.

So that is domestics. Now military. I do have the most soliders, although also the most borders. Because of this I will go for railroad over assembly line. I feel the extra mobility gained will be more useful to me. I will get RP this turn and should manage Rifling before the end of the GA. Retep still hasn't got it but did get MT I think as he cannot research it now, so it looks like he wants to hit with cav. I am confident I should be able to hold with rifles, even if he does a mass upgrade of his knights. I will be able to counter quite effectively too with my older phracts. I think he has missed his best attack window personally straight after the peace deal with flakes. I could see flakes countering him rather than trying to 2v1 me if Retep goes, but I can't be certain of that.

I am rocking a lot of defensive pikes and phracts still, and now without war weary I can reorganise the military for defence better.

TVXQ

Planned /pikri

Death dot

Dimmsdale

Crashing

Burbank

Currently the only cities that can be hit without me seeing the stacks are Burbank and TVXQ. A few turns ago this was also the case for Crashing and Dimmsdale. I am not 100% sure why he cannot hit me from fog now... I think it maybe from him chopping forests in that area... Either way I will reorganise the defenses in that area now to reflect that, and jig things up a little.

I went heavy on the pikes the last few turns as I was expecting his knights to come for me. I feel like I should probably stop that now though. Indeed a wealth push for a turn or 2 maybe a good idea to try and hit rifles a turn earlier.

There is also that square 2N1W of planned pikri that I am concerned about. If he takes it Planned pikri becomes vulernable. He has had more culture that me on it for a few turns now but it has not changed to him, I'm not 100% sure why it hasn't. That will make my defence here a lot harder though. I also have amphibious landings to think about too.

Tech wise I am doing ok I feel.

As I work it out I am mono, music, philo, nationalism, mil trad behind, which all in all isn't too bad. Probably 8 turns of tech, and I feel that I am catching up now.

Then finally, demos.

I know I am full tech and in a GA but still, with that food lead and now the happy to grow I think he needs to move fast here. I feel that the odds have tipped to about a 60-40 chance of a win here for myself, depending on how any war goes. I do note he has the SoZ, although I will counter this with going into PS at the end of my next GA. (this will happen with a GP from NNY and then from Fullout War, in about 10 turns) I will go rep in 4 turns, and then have about 100 extra sci from the merc specialists alone. I also like that there is no trade in our world now :P These demos btw are just a grab from the save and so I hadn't moved the tiles worked like I did before I sent the save on too.

Hope you enjoy reading STX! And anyone else

[spacetyrantxenu]

Great report. What's the plan from here, catch up a bit and then go for the kill when you've stabilized the new lands?

[Commodore]

Whaaaa? Turn 150+, working on RepParts, and...Pyramids? Wow. Still, Police State would be a great fit I guess...

[AdrienIer]

REM's political agenda is apparently to install a police state throughout the empire after enslaving his own people for thousands of years : am I supposed to be worried about your involvement in UK politics ?

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Basically. Plan is to switch to rep after the GA for the decent boost I will get. Rifles I will be able to defend with, tech to FS and FR for the extra happy and sci boost before moving on. I perhaps could get a religion before the current GA is out but having no religion has been really helpful for conquered city border pops. I have quite a diffuse spread of relgions, and any swap will probably hurt the border culture wars.

Retep has a compact empire with a decent amount of troops and currently a tech lead. It will be an awkward attack definitely, but at the same time the emphasis is on him to attack, and I have much better relations with cornflakes than he does, hopefully almost buying his loyalty. I am sure he must realise that he needs to move fairly soon on me to have a decent chance. Perhaps I will be able to counter effectively. I was tempted when he attacked cornflakes to jump in on his side, but I felt actually getting stability and finishing off bob was more important. Now if he goes for cornflakes again I will be ready to go for it.

I need to have a look at the spying rules actually, I might try getting some info on his troop locations. I will have research visibility in a few turns too.

But yes, rep, a few turns to stabilise, get the second GA in about 10-15 turns and go PS at the end of that and hopefully the kill will be obvious from there. I don't know what I will want to go in with yet though, the SoZ will mean that I need to be careful about losses in his lands. A brute force approach could kill my eco quickly. I have almost all the happy except whales, and there is no fur anywhere near me, and unfortuately no gold on the map. A gold pop would be really lovely...

As I mentioned a while ago though - it won't actually take much for me to trigger domination here. I currently have 48% of the land apparently, and I will get to about 50-55% peacefully as I consilidate. If I take a couple of cities (especially those that are pressing me) I should be able to trigger. Whilst I am at 40% pop too currently, that shouldn't be an issue after I grow now and if I take some more land.

I need to say I still don't see why byzantium is seen as such a dud civ... I was able to tech for agri for the first food well in time, even with a 10t worker, instead of a 12 or 15 turn one (which may have had bonus commerce too) so on those a hunt/an hus push may be possible. On bigger maps this may be an issue but you should always be able to reach agri or hunting in time, and you have the wheel too to not waste any worker turns. However I was never in a position that I had nothing except road for the worker this game. All the roads I built were ones I needed, or that I put a turn of roading into on the move to another tile.

Then you have the cataphract. It is still the strongest unit that anyone can build, even with curs available to Retep now. It has been the strongest thing possible to build for the last 60-70 turns, and even after I get rifling still a good unit to have. As I pushed for it I have had literally half the game where no one can touch me in the field because of the war elephant ban, and I was getting odds on pro longbows in bobs cities... Definitely a beast of a UU.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Whaaaa? Turn 150+, working on RepParts, and...Pyramids? Wow. Still, Police State would be a great fit I guess...

Well they always wondered exactly how they could build the pyramids... Now we know! They waited until they had machines that could do it easily!

But I certainly feel it is worth it - remember I only built the hanging gardens like 5-10turns ago :P Actually the mids I felt was a fairly quick build at around 10t and would give a huge sci payoff as I am running merc anyway (lack of trading partners now). Didn't think of the PS payoff until a short while ago thinking how I could go for the final strike.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

REM's political agenda is apparently to install a police state throughout the empire after enslaving his own people for thousands of years : am I supposed to be worried about your involvement in UK politics ?

Ha I have whipped my people dry a little. I imagine I have probably sacrificed more pop than everyone else combined, especially with the courthouse dry whips in Bobs cities to get out of unhappy ASAP. When I get there I may even have to bite my tongue and enter into a state property situation... That would fit better than still running merc. Depends how far in the tech tree I can get by the time of the next GA.

I'm pretty mainstream though, I support our current government. None of the weird fringe stuff for me!