Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore

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[PB25-SPOILERS] The Lunacy of the Reign of HAK Continues

I guess I haven't been paying that much attention but I was a little surprised to see that we're at T76 already. And wow, Master Commodore almost a full 100 points ahead of the field. That's looking a little game-overish if he wasn't constrained for land.

I posted in your spreadsheet our odds against Grimace's G3 Guerilla. They're not good. I don't think that I fully realized the synnergy of his UU + UB. For a measly 3XP we're going to be facing G3 Guerillas.

When Grimace concentrates his forces into a single attack force while we're more spreadout over our land it will be very difficult to defend those 2 hills. G3 gets the 50% retreat bonus plus 25% hills attack bonus so Grimace will be getting survival odds on any attack he makes. If he can 2:1 us, we won't have a chance,...and he's more likely to be able to 2:1 us if we spread our units trying to defend 2 hills and/or a city simultaneously.

It'll get worse if we have to fall back to the city since having defensive odds depends pretty heavily on the fortify bonus unfortunately. Right now Grimace has control of the furs. If he chops the forest or we gain control of that tile and chop the forest we can revisit but until then I think that we need to focus our defense strategy around putting everything inside the city (as you have already done).

You can see from the Gallic Warrior tab that 20% culture is not going to cut it. A G3 will have 59% win odds on a fully fortified archer and 20% retreat odds. It'll also have 23% win odds vs a fully fortified C1 axe and a 38% retreat odds. So,....sorry for disuading you from Masonary earlier. :LOL:

From your City times spreadsheet we look to be a little ahead of Grimace but not enough to have a convincing production advantage. When Grimace runs out of expansion room, which should happen pretty soon, he'll have to entertain other expansion options:
1. Settle on Gavagai's landmass,...not very appealing and likely a long-term failure if not a short-term one.
2. Settle on small island. That will be appealing for him. However, time is not on Grimace's side. Every turn is one turn closer to us having a land and city advantage and one turn closer to defensive catapults and LB/CBs which will shut him down. So if he chooses this, it's to his detriment and our benefit.
3. Fight Master Commodore and Dtay,...+100 score + reputation + lack of hostilities makes that a non-starter.
4. Fight Retep? Maybe, I haven't looked that closely on where their cities are landing. We should probably take a look at city locations to estimate when Grimace runs out of room.
5. Go screw the guy that screwed him. This is probably his logical best move (break one city and expose our whole underbelly) as well as his emotional response when seeing the map.

We need to buy ourselves some time for our land lock strategy to pay off. We also need to be acutely aware of when Grimace lands Iron Working. Reminder that he doesn't need Iron,...just Iron Working for his UU. If we're not sure of his tech situation we can view his land to see a tile with +1 hammer on it for no obvious reason. It's not fool proof since he might not have iron in his territory.

Our tech speed is not great. As soon as those 2 luxaries are hooked we need to be working those riverside cottages at the capital. I'm also getting concerned that we won't be able to finish off Math before Grimace lands IW. If that's the case, then he'll be more tempted to try to punch through our chokepoint.

I think that we need to have enough emergency cash on hand to 100% our way to Masonary or alternatively to start teching it. I dissuaded you earlier in the hopes that we could get to Currency/COL earlier but I didn't fully realize how incredibly effective his UU+UB would be.

Walls in our other choke point also wouldn't hurt in keeping Master Commodore from thinking about HA or his own swords.
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Looking at your dotmap.

C7 I'm happy with and you're 90% there anyway.

C8 I'm not so sure about. On the one hand, it locks out GJ so that leaves us only Borsche to worry about. On the other hand it's very stretched. In the event that GJ did want to take a stab at us, hitting C7 from his new island holding would completely isolate C8. So it's a large risk. C8 also has no initial food, so we'd be better to wait until C7 has popped borders so that C8 can have wet corn on startup. There's also the issue of very high maintenance costs for a strectched out city like C8.

What I'm thinking about as an alternative is C7-3S. It's got 1st ring corn,..it has shared cow for instant startup. The other thing that I'm thinking about is that it allows protection of both cities from a single location (say C7-2S1W) and gives us near instant notification of any infringement on our landmass. C7 getting culture is doubly important since it will have that 2W mountain and all of the visibility that goes along with it.

This is much better defensively ,productively, financally while delaying the nice-to-have stone. We'd also be able to react sooner and probably more forcefully to either a GJ or Borsche infringement.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that we don't have to contend with GJ due to his own strategic reasoning leaving us Grimace to contain and Borsche to boot.
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Will re-review your posts in a bit to reply (only quickly read them earlier while having lunch at a rest stop during my driving trip), but I noticed that Commodore had a couple really big score increases...and WHILE they were logged in, so I just had to log in and check things.....





Great Scientist followed by Oracle, and the second screenshot shows that they have Currency. So they must have used the GS on Math and then Oracle'd Currency. Man, things are gonna start sucking quickly. But at least when we turn research back on, we'll get a KTB for Commodore already having Math.
Also, Grimace has been rapidly increasing his Power (about same as us now). Which means I need to somehow get multiple Axes over to Sore for what will be an impending Gallic Warrior charge at some point. Only problem with that is.....ALL THESE DAMN BARBARIANS!!!!! I can't get a single Axe over there yet, because they are all busy dealing with Barbs. At least the one over by C7 (which will be founded next turn) is only a barb Spear. So the Axe there will easily kill it. I think Happy needs to finish the Axe it started awhile ago after the Library it finishes this turn. Was going to do the WB that it will need for the Crabs when the borders pop, but it's obviously looking like I need military and lots of it fast. *sigh* Guess I should just stop simming...I get my hopes up for a plan, spending hours working on the sim, and then it all falls apart. LOL
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Was originally going to try to reply, using your quotes and breaking things up....but I'm kinda tired (did do about 5 hours of driving today) so just going to reference stuff you said and then get more into things maybe in more detail tomorrow.

Regarding Commodore, and your "And wow, Master Commodore almost a full 100 points ahead of the field. That's looking a little game-overish if he wasn't constrained for land. " statement.....
My previous post explains a good chunk of his quick point lead. He's gonna just start steamrolling and don't know what any of us can do to stop him. But he's also not really constrained for land either. He's actually got a really good spot in some ways. He's got what looks to be a small island to his north (completely uncontested), then he can also go across the water from his capital to the Stone over there (if he beats Elkad to it), and then I'm sure he's got his eye on Battle Island (if he's not already there). I can only hope he decides to fight GJ, Elkad, & retap for the lands in those areas before heading south at me. Because if he decides to head south while I'm trying to fend off Gallic Warriors from Grimace.....well, game over.

Next up, Grimace....I hadn't even thought about or realized the stuff about his UB. With that Dun, his "Swords" will be coming at me with a minimum G1&G2....a city with both Dun & Barracks, therefore sends the G3 Gallic Warrior at me. I somehow thought I would have more time before I saw the G3 units at my doorstep.
Yes, retap decalred war on him, but I somehow doubt that will stop Grimace from wanting to come right at me. Unless retap is able to actually hurt Grimace something fierce, whatever they have going on right now will just be a blip.
So yeah, I think I need to abandon Math for the moment and get Masonry ASAP. I just logged in again to check....we can get Masonry in 2 turns. If I make the decision right now before Commodore & retap play their turns, I can switch over to it this turn. But since I'm tired, I'll likely be headed to bed before that decision can be made....so that means Masonry 3 turns from right now if we decide to switch. Right now still going 0% research on Math this turn.
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(May 1st, 2015, 11:18)MindyMcCready Wrote: Looking at your dotmap.

C7 I'm happy with and you're 90% there anyway.

C8 I'm not so sure about. On the one hand, it locks out GJ so that leaves us only Borsche to worry about. On the other hand it's very stretched. In the event that GJ did want to take a stab at us, hitting C7 from his new island holding would completely isolate C8. So it's a large risk. C8 also has no initial food, so we'd be better to wait until C7 has popped borders so that C8 can have wet corn on startup. There's also the issue of very high maintenance costs for a strectched out city like C8.

What I'm thinking about as an alternative is C7-3S. It's got 1st ring corn,..it has shared cow for instant startup. The other thing that I'm thinking about is that it allows protection of both cities from a single location (say C7-2S1W) and gives us near instant notification of any infringement on our landmass. C7 getting culture is doubly important since it will have that 2W mountain and all of the visibility that goes along with it.

This is much better defensively ,productively, financally while delaying the nice-to-have stone. We'd also be able to react sooner and probably more forcefully to either a GJ or Borsche infringement.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that we don't have to contend with GJ due to his own strategic reasoning leaving us Grimace to contain and Borsche to boot.

Yeah, I knew my prospective C8 was reaching big time. It was just the way I wanted to try that first sim. The one 3S of C7 is a better near-term settlement. So that might be a possibility. Though with the current state of things, I might want to settle things in my south (and closer to Grimace) first. We'll just have to see how things change over the next handful of turns. Not sure what else I can really sim out before we start getting close to having a settler for C8. Since right now, that settler might end up getting delayed even further due to whatever Grimace is doing and what these barbarians keep doing.
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(May 1st, 2015, 21:03)HitAnyKey Wrote: So yeah, I think I need to abandon Math for the moment and get Masonry ASAP. I just logged in again to check....we can get Masonry in 2 turns. If I make the decision right now before Commodore & retap play their turns, I can switch over to it this turn. But since I'm tired, I'll likely be headed to bed before that decision can be made....so that means Masonry 3 turns from right now if we decide to switch. Right now still going 0% research on Math this turn.

Yep, conversing with myself by replying to my own post.... crazyeye

Just decided to keep going this turn at 0% research. Happy is completing it's Library this turn so would rather have that done before turning research back on. If delaying Masonry by 1 turn is enough to destroy me....then I totally misjudged everything. smile
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Whew! *sigh of relief*



I have research set to Masonry for the moment. Will think about it throughout the day (or unless you are actually around for some quick input), but I will likely leave it like this. Just means my sim plan that had chops involved will need to hold off on all those chops. So I'll just do more roading and pre-chopping until Math comes in. I'll do additional updates later, but just wanted to get this quick one out there. smile
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Oh boy....



Looks like I beat GJ out to settling in this area by a single turn. I'm betting he was going to settle where his Axe/Settler is right now. That would have been a nice spot for him...sharing Crabs with his island city across the water, and having the Stone/Corn/Wines in the BFC. Hopefully he just turns around and settles his city much further west and doesn't decide to poke his head into my borders with his Axe by declaring war. My axe is wounded right now, but does at least have Melee promotion. And by the time he could potential attack would have 2 turns of fortification and be partially healed. The bigger annoyance will be if he decides to move his Axe next to the city to sit for a few turns and that barb spear also goes straight for my cows. Depending on what both he and the barb do next turn, I can always send my new chariot that way, but it would take a couple turns for it to get there.
Anyway, going to do a few more things today at my parents but maybe I'll get a chance to redo a sim in a bit.
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To the Lurkers....since this turn GJ played before me to move his Axe/Settler into position, and then I played my turn which entailed founding the city and fortifying my Axe.....do I need to wait for him to play first next turn? Or does it not matter since we are not yet at war?
It may not matter anyway, since because I'll be busy most of tomorrow with my drive back home he'll likely end up playing before me anyway. But figured I'd ask.
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Quick update via images. Will be back later to finish the turn. Still need to move my Chariot (either west towards GJ, which I likely won't) or east into Sore (which I likely will). And still need to move the wounded Axe out of Adventurous to pick a spot to stop that incoming Barb Spear. But the images basically tell it all. GJ planed his city in an annoying spot.....Borsche captured a barb city while I was logged in...and I spotted a new barb city to my south. I wanted to plant a city 1N of that so it wouldn't lose out on 3 BFC tiles...but just taking a free city at some point might just be better. Saves having to make a settler.







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