EitB PBEM XLIII

[DaveV]

My ranking of commerce tiles:
1) Riverside grains, floodplains, or grassland. Free commerce on tiles you need to work anyway, eventual Deruptus.
2) Calendar commerce (*not* including forested silk or jungled dyes). Unlocked by the standard agriculture-->calendar beeline.
3) Wine
4) Gold or non-jungled gems

Calendar resources usually come into play around turn 15. Jungled gems, dyes, or sugar might not be usable until turn 70 or so (and a jungle spread can screw you even if the resource starts without it). Special cases for different civs: dwarves can improve wines as soon as they have a worker, elves don't mind forest on their silk, etc.

[Kragroth]

I hear one call for equal commerce resources within 6 tiles. I hear a ranking off importance of resources.

I still need a more detailed plan of action or concensus.

[Dreylin]

Well, how much effort are you willing to put into the balancing?

From our point of view the more balancing is better, but maybe that's a step beyond what you signed up for.

Personally I'd like for us all to have access to some riverside commerce and also roughly similar commerce resources.

[Kragroth]

Well, how much effort are you willing to put into the balancing?

From our point of view the more balancing is better, but maybe that's a step beyond what you signed up for.

Personally I'd like for us all to have access to some riverside commerce and also roughly similar commerce resources.

I'll do almost whatever requested, but I require specificity with what I am to do.

Ex. Should I ensure everyone has an equal number of river commerce Within 6 tiles of the starting location?

Ex. Should I duplicate commerce resource categories ala DaveV such that any civ with these will find them duplicated across other civs within 6 tiles?

I need formal suggestion and consensus on the method.

[DaveV]

OK, if you're signing up for an infinite amount of work as a mapmaker, here's my dream scenario:

* There is an obvious starting city spot that can be settled on the first turn. No hidden resources in the city tile (horses, copper, etc.).
* Every player has an equal number of river tiles within the BFC of that first city. Each starting city has an equivalent grain resource (dry corn = wet wheat or wet rice) in the BFC.
* Each player should have at least one good commerce city site and one production city site within five tiles of the starting city.
* All starting cities are either on a river or not on a river (i.e., don't have player A start on a river and player B not).
* All players have equivalent calendar commerce resources (incense, silk, or dyes) in the BFC.
* Outside of the BFC, players should have equivalent (but not identical) access to horses and copper.
* All players should have access to equivalent happy resources in each category (calendar, crafting/mining, sailing, hunting) within 12 tiles of the starting city. Not player A with sugar and cotton, player B with gems and gold, player C with fur and ivory, player D with pearls and whales, but more like player A with sugar, gems, fur, wine, player B with cotton, gold, ivory, whales, etc.
* All players should have equivalent island access.
* All players should have access to equivalent health resources in each category (agriculture, calendar, fishing, animal husbandry).
* Each player should have equivalent access to fresh water.
* No Remnants of Patria nor Yggdrasil with ten tiles of any starting city.

Balance doesn't need to be perfect, and I'm not expecting you to spend too much of your time on counting tiles and massaging the map. The above list is a "perfect world" set of conditions. As I've said before, I'll be happy with any map where every player has a comparable chance to win the game.

[jalepeno]

To follow up on Dave's [excellent] guidance, if you don't have time or inclination to do all of that balancing, then I'd set precedence as follows:

1. Equivalent access to strategic resources (e.g. horses, copper, etc)
2. Equivalent BFC (all rivered or not, equivalent commerce)
3. Power unique features (remnants, ygg, bones, mirror) at a distance
4. Equivalent happy resources
5. Good second city sites
6. Island access
7. Equivalent health resources

After the first couple, it's all gravy from my point of view. (Well, honestly, it's ALL gravy since we'd be stuck with mirrorland otherwise - thanks so much Kragoth!)

[Dreylin]

DaveV & jalapeno's priority orders sound good.

I'd add one more thing; I'd rather start this week with only a few items on the list completed than wait for 2+weeks to have the whole thing perfectly crafted.

[Ventessel]

I second Dreylin. Honestly, I'm alright if it's only like 85% balanced (i.e. resources are equal but tile yields are only roughly approximate and the second/third city sites are comparable but not necessarily equivalent) and would prefer to start up sooner with a decent map vs. later with a "perfect" map.

If we can start by Saturday I can play the first turns quickly, but I will be travelling from roughly 10.00 Sunday until Tuesday evening next week, and while I'll be able to play turns I won't be able to knock them out in quick succession on Sunday.

[Aurorarcher]

DaveV & jalapeno's priority orders sound good.

I'd add one more thing; I'd rather start this week with only a few items on the list completed than wait for 2+weeks to have the whole thing perfectly crafted.

I agree with this.

I have been pretty silent here lately as I'm not a big fan of "perfect" balance.

[Dreylin]

On the subject of blitzing through the early turns; really the only time outside my play window that I can guarantee to be available is ~10:30-12:30 Central on a Sunday. The rest of my weekend is spent with my Wife and Kids. However, if there is another weekend window that works for everyone else, then I might be able to negotiate something with my Wife....