[SPOILERS] Pindicator helps clean up SMEGmod

[pindicator]

Turn 081

Here's a way to increase the happiness cap!




One missionary went down to the capital; the second one... I'm not sure yet. I might move him west with my next city; I might move him to Viana; i might move him east or south for my next city that way. Or maybe I should just tech Meditation so I can build more of these guys...

And let's end with an ethics question:




GermanJoey just double-moved to get the worker to this position, even though I clearly had a chariot in threatening the area (and earlier was specifically threatening that worker). Does this mean that I can now double-move him to take the worker? This is a serious question. This is why you don't double move people!

[flugauto]

It is a peace time move. He has not attacked. As I understand it, the attacker has to not double move.

[pindicator]

Yeah, but the issue is he's able to get free movement or actions or whatever he did with that worker without needing to worry about it's safety.

Killing that worker is going to cause a situation though. Maybe I'll just pillage the road

[pindicator]

Actually, look at the terrain. If he hadn't double moved and I had made the same move then his worker would be trapped. It's pretty clear that he has built that road on turns 79-80 then moved to the forest on 81. If instead of double moving me on 80-81 he just finishes the road and waits for me; I move my chariot and now his worker is trapped.

Double moving in wartime is hardly ever the issue with double moves. It's double moving right before war or in any area where there is a gained advantage that all the double move issues come up. Here it appears double moving has given the advantage of saving a potentially trapped worker.

Now did he always have a plan to move the worker 2SE next turn and cheekily decided to add a road? Or did he just blindly build a road and then after realize his worker was trapped? Or is he ignorant of all of it and just played without thinking? Doesn't matter. He knew my chariot was in the area to harass him.

[Grimace]

My opinion: It's not a violation of the double-move rules, though it's just on the "not" side. It's not war time, nor is there an automatic expectation that you'll pick off the worker. It's not an automatic assumption that someone in a position to capture an unprotected worker will automatically do so. But double-moves are partly about intent, as well. Did he intentionally play in such a way that he could do that? Or did he just play his turns when he could? Since there's no war he doesn't have to respect a turn split.

But then again, I'm a relative noob. In PB23 Elum double-moved a protector into an empty city that I could have razed if he had only single-moved, but since we weren't at war and there was no expectation of it, and I was pretty sure it was accidental (he didn't end turn then play right away...it was just when we both played in the two turns), I just asked a lurker to let him know about it and went on.

[pindicator]

But then again, I'm a relative noob. In PB23 Elum double-moved a protector into an empty city that I could have razed if he had only single-moved, but since we weren't at war and there was no expectation of it, and I was pretty sure it was accidental (he didn't end turn then play right away...it was just when we both played in the two turns), I just asked a lurker to let him know about it and went on.

Yeah, I've been thinking about what an appropriate response would be, and as much as it would make me feel smug inside to know that I killed his worker that he saved from being trapped, it also clearly would escalate things, likely lead to a game reset, and just cause bad feelings all around.

So I think the best answer is to pillage the road he just spent building -- because the whole point of my chariot in this area is to delay him developing that city. I can see it as just a case of him playing last in the turn order and then because he was there when the next turn came around just playing his turn again without thinking about it. I like the idea of a lurker letting him know about it. Maybe someone could pop in to his thread after he plays his next turn and point out that the worker would have been trapped if he hadn't double-moved?

[pindicator]

Turn 082

Full disclosure: I double-moved GermanJoey and did this:




All things considering I believe it's the appropriate response. I hope he realizes I could have taken the worker had he not double-moved before. Although I really disagree with the idea that just because we're not at war we can double move each other. So I can double move people to sneak vulnerable units by? Doesn't seem right.


*****


I tried something new on the 9th day. I walked with a group of people for the entire day instead of going my own pace. Their pace is very different than mine, and I found myself impatient and wanting to just move when they went leisurely through the day.

We started late, leaving only when the albergue closed its doors and kicked us out. Breakfast was finished around 9, and we had only made Logroño by midday. I liked Logroño, and felt like I could have stayed there a day if I hadn't been walking. But after coffee and sideways glances from citizens — nothing at all like the friendliness I experienced in Pamplona, here we were in the bustle of the city center and felt like a nuisance towards the people as they walked and dodged around us. I settled for a bar of chocolate at a local shop and one of my walking partners picked up a bottle of wine and we continued west.

Walking out of Logroño the land began to remind me of the camping trips in central Oregon my parents would take me on. The grass was dry and brown; conifer trees lined a lake and the smells of barbeque filled the air. We found a table and made a makeshift picnic: everybody had different food and we sampled a bit from all, passing around the wine bottle since nobody had thought to brought cups. I was eager to walk after, but my companions thought a siesta would be a wonderful idea, so we lay on the grass in the park with our packs off and let the sun grow high in the sky. By the time we started it had gotten very hot.

The destination was a tiny town called Navarette. Somebody had a guide book which said that this was a good albergue to stay at. We were now in La Rioja, and the grass and wheat fields I had noticed before now gave way to vineyard after vineyard. There was little shade and the going was slow and unpleasant. It was well past 5 before we arrived, and the last 4 beds in town were ours to take. I considered it lucky for us.

That night there was a great soccer match that the entire town seemed to come out to the bar for. A television was brought out to the street and chairs lined in rows. Barcelona played Manchester, and beat them 3-1. After every goal for the Barcelona team fireworks went off in the street, people sang and danced. The owner of the bar brought out treys of meat and cheese for everyone, gratis. We promptly bought another round. Perhaps there were more peregrinos than residents there, but it was a wonderful atmosphere, one of the highlights of the trip so far.




This new city only cost me 2 commerce overall for setting it up -- yay Great Lighthouse -- but my breakeven is now down to 50%. Still, 9 cities and 50% seems rather good. I don't know if I'll make 10 cities by turn 90; I'm considering instead just pushing everything west and claiming that section of land for myself as quickly as possible. I'd want 5 more settlers to grab every spot. And I want at least 2 settlers for the south and another half dozen for the east. I have a feeling I won't get all of that.

I'm also moving units northward to take that barbarian city -- with 3 warriors as its defenders I think I can attack when I get an axe and 2 chariots in position. Which should be in about 10 turns.

The missionary I first thought I'd send up here, but I'm reconsidering and now will send him south to Viana. I want that city to pop its borders to claim the second seafood in the south.

Next great person is in 7 turns; I will probably only have Metal Casting done by then, so the GM will have to sit around a little bit while I tech Alphabet.

Oh, and Brick is lucky - he got a confucian spread the turn after I founded it and immediately revolted to Confucianism. So I tech Code of Laws and he gets just as much benefit through RNG? Makes religion feel like a prisoners dilemma; you want someone to get it but you want it to be your neighbor so you can get the trade and have the religion spread without committing the beakers to the tech.

[Grimace]

All things considering I believe it's the appropriate response. I hope he realizes I could have taken the worker had he not double-moved before. Although I really disagree with the idea that just because we're not at war we can double move each other. So I can double move people to sneak vulnerable units by? Doesn't seem right.

Yeah, that seems fair to me. But like I said, to me it's about intent...if the intent is to take advantage of peacetime in order to double-move in such a way that you avoid threats from another player, that's certainly against the spirit of the rule. But lots of them are innocent, even for experienced players.

[pindicator]

Turn 084

Viana is finally getting some worker help, and a missionary to pop borders and grab that second seafood.




I've started another settler in Roncesvalles, which will take 4 turns to complete. I still need more workers, though; yet now with 2 each at Navarette and Villa Monjardín those cities should finally be able to get off the ground. But now that Metal Casting is only a few turns away I'm going to want more workers for workshops around Puente la Reina and Roncesvalles. So I think Roncesvalles needs to pump workers after this. Although I also want to give one of its seafood to the capital to let it grow - it's cap will reach 9 in a few turns and I want to take advantage of the granary I just chopped out there.

Anyway, as you can tell, my recent round of under-developed cities has let the neighborhood catch up with me in the Crop Yield race:




So I think I will settle the closer-in locations in my next wave. There are 3 good spots with multiple resources that I can settle, all 3 are relatively close by. Currently I have 2 settlers in production, and I think I know where to get #3. That will put me up to a dozen cities; I think I can get those all planted within 10 turns. Plus there's also the barbarian city up north that I'm moving units to capture. I can have that within 10 turns as well, I believe.

With all these cities, I wish I had stone nearby for Hanging Gardens...

Edit: Well, I really do want to get that gem/clam/rice spot in the far west and block CH off from that land...

[pindicator]

Turn 085

Oh man, I just want to tech HBR and punish this overextension! (Edit: And yet I am trying to over-extend into the west )




But I'm already committed to my Civil Service bulb plan. Which means after Metal Casting I need to tech Alphabet, and the Great Merchant is already coming before my ETA to complete Alphabet.

In other news, Thoth has bee-lined Vassalage. I wonder if he picked traits that give bonuses to buildings that are boosted by Vassalage? That would be a neat strat. It appears I'm the only one ignoring the religion tree, instead focusing on the Civil Service beeline I've been doing. (Yay, great merchants!) But I still don't have contact with Krill or plako, so it's possible that they are teching more conventionally. Of all the GNP-scrying I can do, I can only see that 2 people have Metal Casting and nobody has Alphabet, Construction, Aesthetics, or Calendar.