Joey's GA has finally ended (though I expect him to kick off another one). This puts us as #1 in GNP now, with 2T until Engineering.
Most of those Walls builds are for two reasons. To get the cities ready to build Castle, and because those cities have overflow hammers that are making good use of the +100 bonus. Sleepy had a number of hammers such that the post-bonus amount is actually exactly the 50 hammers needed for the Walls.
I started Sore on a Forge since the Spearman he was starting would have completed, and I want that to wait until we get Engineering for it to build the LK.
Just before logging out I had another random thought....
While we are attacking Gavagai in old-Borscheland, we could also send a couple galleys of units at his western front. Attack him from both sides. The two Galleys you see in the above screenshot would take quite awhile to the other side. So I could have 3 Galleys ferrying troops over to Popeyes, while these 2 Galleys ferry troops over to this city. He'd be forced to split his defenses across great distances. So next turn I could turn these two Galleys around, and get them ready to load up with LKs once produced. Thoughts?
You need to log back in and change away from all of those walls builds except for possibly the capital.
Alternatively, please provide me with an upfront cost of building walls (+castles?) and a corresponding forecasted benefit stream with a break-even point so that I can understand the reasoning that makes you choose this build.
(June 30th, 2015, 09:37)HitAnyKey Wrote: While we are attacking Gavagai in old-Borscheland, we could also send a couple galleys of units at his western front. Attack him from both sides. The two Galleys you see in the above screenshot would take quite awhile to the other side. So I could have 3 Galleys ferrying troops over to Popeyes, while these 2 Galleys ferry troops over to this city. He'd be forced to split his defenses across great distances. So next turn I could turn these two Galleys around, and get them ready to load up with LKs once produced. Thoughts?
I agree with this. However, we might have to rethink this whole invasion.
We're not invading Borsche anymore and the chances of catching an injured Gavagai stack dropped to zero. That previous post about we don't have to worry too much until we see an even sized stack,...we'll we're going to see an even sized stack now.
If GJ can't hold MC on the island then we're in a whole different ballgame as well. I didn't really expect GJ to get caught so easily. If GJ loses the island and/or signs peace with MC,...we'll we're going to have a huge naval battle on our hands. MC can bypass our choke with galleys and there's not too much that we can currently do about it.
We also have to be aware that us and Gavagai are the only ones who seem to want to play the game right now and Gavagai's enthuisam might drop to zero when when we go in with our UU or just DOW in general since he won't get a chance to consolidate his gains into profitable cities.
We'll have to think about this a bit. Alternatives include:
A. Trying to wrest the the battle island away from MC/GJ. Not a great choice but if MC lands those cities this game is truly over.
B. Dogpile MC with Retep to wrest Grimaceland away from him before it becomes productive.
B is probably our best choice right now given our UU, however unappetizing. If GJ can put up a decent fight,...then charging into Gavagai's mass of units seems better but we'll need 5 galleys AND we can't go in without our UU since he'll shred our first defenders. Maybe we can chat later.
So is that official that Master Krill is taking over? So the main question is, will Master Krill fight hard for the island? Or is he more likely to pay his way out of a losing war?
My first guess is that doing a peace buyout combined with taking more Elkad cities is the most rational move and the one that he's most likely to pursue. That puts us in a precarious position. Also, MC will be very satisfied that he's taken down the #2 sufficiently that it's time to refocus. That refocus would mean either Elkad cities for MC or taking us down a notch.
Either way its getting hard for me to picture us having any real chance. We're going to have a tough fight against Gavagai with a lot of back-and-forth city trading. We'd need MC to really get into a grind to have any chance of really pushing forward before he turns his attention towards us. In contrast the Elkad dogpile is likely to be fast and vicious with Donovan + MK/GJ + MC all ripping his outdated, low production self to shreads.
Anyway,....I'm in google docs if you have some time to chat.
Also, sorry to hear about the continued hard times. I got the impression that you had enough to keep yourself busy,...but that doesn't sound like the case from your tech thread post.
Just logged in while MC was finishing up his turn:
Happily, he razed Bedazzled. So he at least doesn't have a city that can boat my capital. It would have ended up being a crappy city for him, so it would have made no sense to keep it. He'll probably resettle it either 1N or 1NW to be an inland city.
Here's the full island:
The units of MC that are shown are the ones 1E of Black Seminoles. He also has 2 Knights & 1 Crossbow inside the city. Then there is the one Knight I see near Uptown Warriors, and the other one Knight that just razed Bedazzled.
He also took razed another city of GJ's, and one that somehow gave Elkad a 4pt score increase. So probably something close to Elkad that allowed his culture to give him more land points, I guess.
Silly me forgot to try to look at retep closely to see if I can see if he might be doing anything. I do have my northern Spy that just recently entered retep's lands. But I was thinking more to slowly have it work it's way to Commodore's northern lands. But maybe I'll have it wander around and see if I can find an offensive stack to let me know if retep might be planning something. I do know one of his cities I walked through had a ton of Spearmen in it, but not much else.
I see a Galley next to Uptown Warriors, so hopefully GJ was able to reinforce it with a couple more Longbows to slow down MC from taking the whole island too quickly. GJ also took the lead in GNP again with his starting research on Engineering.
I do still hope that he relayed to Krill that diplo trade (5 Gold & Crabs for 5 Gold & Crabs) and that at least one of them understands that I was hinting at the fact that I was only wanting to loan him the Galley for 5 turns or so. It would certainly be nice to get it back at some point. But that's just a risk you take with that sort of thing. I hadn't been using it actively, and if helps GJ slow down MC from expanding too quickly, then it's worth it.
(June 30th, 2015, 21:28)HitAnyKey Wrote: I do still hope that he relayed to Krill that diplo trade (5 Gold & Crabs for 5 Gold & Crabs) and that at least one of them understands that I was hinting at the fact that I was only wanting to loan him the Galley for 5 turns or so. It would certainly be nice to get it back at some point. But that's just a risk you take with that sort of thing. I hadn't been using it actively, and if helps GJ slow down MC from expanding too quickly, then it's worth it.
No, I had no idea what you were trying to communicate with that and for the most part I completely gave up with you. Clearing out the units while gifting me a galley that was really far from the troops I was trying to ship over just seemed like a big middle finger to me. I had no chance of actually getting units into that city. I tried so hard, over and over and over and over to be deferential to you, to offer you beneficial deals, to try to communicate simple messages like "DUDE JUST LOOK AT THE FUCKING MAP" that it seemed like you didn't understand and apparently actually didn't understand. Meanwhile you guys try elaborate stuff like "40g means we want to buy a spy" and "5g for crabs means we're loaning (??) a galley to you" that I've never heard of anyone using, and go ballistic over a defensive city that was 5 tiles from my capital and 10 tiles from yours.
I've been tearing my hair out over you for months now, HAK.
Barely have time to post the update as I need to get on the road to be at my brother's place for him to then bring me to the airport. So I don't have time to think about and respond to Krill's diplo windows that I logged into:
I did accept the map trade. Probably shouldn't have, since I don't think I gained as much from it as he probably did. Oh well.
As for the first one....I really don't understand these things. My only assumption is that he's trying to nudge me to go to war with Commodore? *shrug*
Now I understand the score changes last turn. MC took Nijmegen and then gave it back to Elkad.
Here's the demo's and graphs:
I am actually highly considering going after the old Grimace lands. If retep is actually whipping out units to attack MC on that side, me going after these lands will cause a 3-front war for MC. He won't be able to protect that. And may as well hit these cities before MC can whip out thousands of units, since they are all still small already. He'll get a whip or two, but that's about it. I might have more luck here than I would getting units shipped over to Gavagai quick enough. I'll probably make the decision next turn or two, maybe. Basically need to decide where to start positioning this stack of units for which front they need to be on.
Anyway, gotta go.
(July 1st, 2015, 04:27)GermanJoey Wrote: Clearing out the units while gifting me a galley that was really far from the troops I was trying to ship over just seemed like a big middle finger to me.
I really don't understand how gifting you a galley can be considered an insult.
(July 1st, 2015, 04:27)GermanJoey Wrote: I tried so hard, over and over and over and over to be deferential to you, to offer you beneficial deals, to try to communicate simple messages like "DUDE JUST LOOK AT THE FUCKING MAP" that it seemed like you didn't understand and apparently actually didn't understand. Meanwhile you guys try elaborate stuff like "40g means we want to buy a spy" and "5g for crabs means we're loaning (??) a galley to you" that I've never heard of anyone using, and go ballistic over a defensive city that was 5 tiles from my capital and 10 tiles from yours.
We're at a bit of a disadvantage here information wise.
As for the map, I think that we understood it fine. The 5-tiles/10-tiles argument has some merit but is reduced somewhat by the waterways. I personally had very high hopes for peaceful relations with you and we tried our best to convey that we wouldn't dispute your claim to the island.
As for a "defensive city" well I sure didn't see it that way. A defensive city does not steal wet corn away from an established city (however recently). A defensive city is also not planted to hit our city with 2-movers out of the blue. Had you moved your city over 1-2 tiles we probably would have had peaceful relations.
Then there's that little advance that you made with the axe when you could see into our city via mountains. That's open hostility and I'm not sure why you felt that we should not see you as a threat or risk after that.
All of the above should have been obvious to you. What would be less apparaent is how much your city plant costed us. Once you planted there, and particularly so close which equates to threatening, we were unable to shut Borsche off of our landmass. So you really cost us a big regional chunk.
Yes, you gave us a good deal on the city trade. Was that deferential or would it be fair to say that you could not have successfully defended it? Regardless, it was a good move on your part and I personally felt no further hostility towards you.
