Have limited internet the last few days, so I'll keep this quick.
Níðhöggr has been erected. We seem to be losing significantly in score, my opponents must have been micro-ing better a while ago. I guess maybe I should have started the settler earlier. Oh well.
I received this notification from Kragroth before this turn. Just settling a city we planned to earlier. Peace shall remain between our nations.
Gahhh. Fuckin prick. Our borders are now touching even without any border expansion. what a bastard. Clearly this "peace" shall last only until Krags determines me ripe for invasion. Grrr. He has essentially prevented any potential settling I could have done eastwards and created a border close to my heartlands. There is no other reason, "planning" be damned. I don't know if he thinks since this is my first real multiplayer I don't know etiquette or something. Cause I don't, but I can't imagine this being normal diplomatic wise. An aggressive settling move of this nature this early in the game when there is plenty of space and this is his 2nd or 3rd city... he is basically asking for war. Unfortunately, with his military strength, I can't give it to him. Guhhh. I'm mad. Well, I am switching off settler production for another warrior, possibly 2 just to be on the safe side. It's still 3 turns till mining, and then I can finish the mine over the bronze hill Ellimist pointed out to me before I take up bronze working. I'm seriously considering simply churning out warriors/ pyre zombies and going for an early war, seeing as our fledgling empire will be engulfed by it soon whether we like it or not. Correspondence now with Ellimist is a must, and perhaps its time to make our first overures to Old Lion, who is we know is nearby even if we have not yet met. Damn Kragroth!
-may our enemies be burned to ash in the fires of Armageddon and scattered to the four winds!
We have shared map information, and I hope you view our similarly minded peoples with the same hopes for peace and prosperity as I do. Truthfully, until we are more technologically advanced, there is little we can offer each other, which is why we have not been in much contact since our initial meeting. However, events in the wider world are changing.
As you will have noticed, the Clan of Ember's star is rising. Kragroth has become increasingly dangerous even as early as it is since our tribes have settled. And now he directly threatens me. He has settled a city not 3 leagues distant from our new settlement Níðhöggr. He claims that it is "just settling a city we planned to earlier", and declares peace shall remain.
This is bull. There is no peaceful reason for such an aggressive settling move. Unfortunately, I can do little to call him out on it (have you seen his power graph?!) We shall prepare for war as best we can, and I hope that you understand it would be in your best interest to aid us should it come to pass. I know that this is much to ask, but a powerful Clan, with the run of both his lands to settle and mine to conquer is something no one wants.
I am sending you a screenshot of the conflicting lands as an informative gift of sorts to impress on you the gravity of his expansion. With this move, he has cemented all the lands South of him as his own, and a border close to my heart and far from his for an invasion staging point.
Can the Sheaim count on your assistance should war break out? While we are not known for being a peaceful or merciful folk, we pay our debts, and such help would not lightly be forgotten. As i mentioned before, I hope our nations can grow together, and it is my sincere belief that a military alliance of sorts would be in both our interests. We are likely to remain 4rth fiddle for a long time - a non-threatening ally who can be nonetheless extremely useful. Kragroth, on the other hand...well, I think you can draw your own conclusion on his militaristic/expansion focus.
Your's Truly,
Saruman of the Sheaim
(Note- I sent him the same screenshot posted above with my research and world map blacked out.
We Amurites have had only limited dealings with the Clan so far, but agree that they might become dangerous later. The city you refer to seems to be positioned intentionally to limit your own expansion, and possibly as a prelude to aggression.
Amurite soothsayers have provided me with some facts about the Clan of Embers that you may find of interest. The Clan of Embers possesses three cities with a total population of 12. (the capital has 6) Their power rating is currently 26, of which six comes from population and (probably) twenty comes from units. Warlord Kragoth probably has a total of six warriors and one goblin, however it is very possible that some of these units are still scattered around the world exploring due to his worldspell.(I encountered a Clan goblin 8 turns ago in the wilderness.)
Kragoth's score is currently 253, and he probably had the "rival best" of 35 land area on turn 30. 12 population is worth 71 score and 35 land area is worth 76. His palace is worth 17, leaving 89 score from technology. This equates to 8 technologies, assuming that none of them are worth more than 1 tech point.
Based on Kragoth's current rate of expansion, I do not believe he has any Warrens built yet, but he almost certainly has Masonry and will have them soon. Very recently, his culture per turn rate increased by approximately 2, which probably means that his second city completed a monument. His total MFG is 20 and I suspect that his capital and second city are both building Warrens right now after completing the settler and monument.
Okay, so, other than that info, I'm not sure what you'd like me to do. The Clan are not near to me, and my civ does not have access to early or mid-game advantages that favor aggression. I have no expectations of trading useful info or maps with them, nor open borders, considering the distances involved between my land and theirs.
And... I don't want to sound rude, but are you familiar with Pyre Zombies? They can be pretty useful at dealing with inconvenient units and cities. Kragoth is an aggressive player and this is an aggressive move on his part.
Anyway, let me know if I can be of any help.
While this is clearly not a promise of military help, I was not expecting such, and had I recieved it, I wouldn't have trusted it. The info, on the other hand, is very good to know.
The Sheaim thank you for your in depth and very generous analysis. We understand your reluctance to go to war, and would not hold that against you. If/when it comes to war, any information would of course be much appreciated. And haha yes I am very well familiar with Pyre Zombies. I had resolved not to make a rush of them this game, but Kragroth has forced my hand in this matter, much the fool him.
Okay, so it's been a while since I posted. My apologies. Here's some overdue correspondence;
TURN 52
I can confirm that Kragoth discovered Masonry on turn 48 and Education on turn 44. This also means that he definitely has Crafting and Ancient Chants. He's in Agrarianism, which confirms that he has Agriculture and Calendar.
I am less certain about his other two techs, but I believe they are Exploration and Mining according to the available data. He definitely DOESN'T have Bronze Working, KotE, or HBR. (no player has these).
Under normal circumstance I would not have reached out to you until my scout(s) have found your lands, but under present circumstance, what with the apparent loss of your capital, I feel as though I must reach out and ask, how? why? And I can only hope that this raven reaches you, and receives an answer.
To the as yet unknown, but legendary Tasunke;
Though the odds were HEAVILY in our favor, an opportunistic group of lizard-men somehow won past the lone fully dug in battalion protecting the capitol while the lions share of the Sheaim forces were fortifying against a rampaging Orthus, and threatening Clan in the East. Rest assured, the city is retaken, and such a tragedy will not happen again, though it has proved most ill timed, when Kragroth's Warrens are nearly finished, the completion of which will undoubtedly start his offensive push. While my scouts are unsure as to the location of your lands, we hope that future contact will prove both peaceful and mutually beneficial.
Sincerely,
Saruman of the Sheaim
Yep. I done fucked up big time. Basically i had all my spare warriors in Nidhoggr because Orthus showed up and was chillin in Kragroths lands. If Kragroth used that opportunity I could of been fucked. So I had 2 warriors in the capital when a lizardman showed up. They moved around my capital and got in range of my 2 workers who were on a mountaintop with only 1 warrior guarding. That scared me a bit so I MOVED A WARRIOR OUT OF MY CAPITAL TO PROTECT THEM. I assumed my lone warrior with full 25% def plus the 20% from the city and the additional 25% inherent warrior ability was plenty in protection against a lone unpromoted lizardman. I was wrong. The next turn Jormungandr was barbarian. Graaaar. The worst part was besides the elder council gone, I had 6 turns of labor on a settler all gone.
It would seem, if not for Orthus, that the best time to begin an attack might be before warrens are completed ... and yet, with Orthus still in the picture, it might be best to lay hands on his axe first ... and of course defending vs Orthus is (imho) generally a better idea than attacking into him, due to the inherent city defense bonus, plus any relevant culture bonuses.
I have a scout on patrol, and I am hopeful that I will meet other nations such as your own, however these wilds are quite deadly, and even a sure'd victory can become folly.
It truly heartens my soul that such a fellow lover of magic is not as truly threatened as I had once feared. And yet, it does seem a grave course indeed, that you embark upon. I can only give my condolences, and my sincerest wishes of well being.
My scout is currently seeking others in the deep south, 'below' the Orcish empire, and if u have any units in the area, I would be very interested in meeting.
It is with great pains that we hear of your plight with your lizardkin foes. Indeed, I too have suffered a great loss at the hands of such vile creatures ... however not quite as great a loss as ye. Early on I sought fit to seek out all such Ruins near my person and destroy them with haste. Therefore I have included the relative direction of where a Ruins lay.
What I would ask is that you open your borders to my scout, and that, in any ways that I may pass through your borders unharmed, I would be grateful. Even if it were not, as it were, by way of using any such 'open borders agreements' ... and yet, I do hope I hear from you with regard to this matter, for I fear some foul beast may otherwise devour my young scout ... hopefully a lion rather than a griffon, that I could at least find some bones to bury.
My sincerest remarks,
Lord Calabim of the Cold.
To the Dread Lord Calabim,
Indeed my warriors fumed with rage at the lizardkin's lucky blitz, and I hope your bloodpets put the foul creatures down wherever possible.
You and yours are a polite sort, if rather cold, and I am of mind to let you into our borders. We are both pursuers of great magics, the great mysteries of Erebus, and we are not afraid to plumb its depths from necromancy to demonology...We have much in common in that we look to gain strength now, that we may flex it later, unlike that uncouth Warlord of the Clan, who dares to settle not 3 leagues from my city, and has the gall to tell me that "it was planned before I settled there", and "peace will remain". Well. In anycase, You have good words and I like you. But my incompetent bureaucrats have no way of writing a letter of safe passage for your scouts. The only way to enter my lands would be to declare war. And with my present tense situation with Kragroth, having a potentially hostile scout running around near my workers and mapping my lands seems a terrible idea.
The only way it could work is if you
A) Swear on your honor and your power to do no harm, and give no strategic information on my lands and forces dispositions to Kragroth or any other Foreigner,
B) keep well away from my city centers
C) Agree to scout out Kragroths capital and report to me.
Please understand that I have to take the utmost caution at this period of great change to my nation. Our capital was already lost once, and we can not afford to be friendly. My terms are I feel reasonable, considering your scout would be gathering information on me with the ability to potentially take a city should I be unwary, and that I have nothing normally to gain from this venture. I think info on Kragroth should it be possible is a fair price for entrance.
I look forward to a real open borders agreement in the near future.
SiIncerely, Saruman of the Sheaim
To Sorceror Saruman of the Sheaim,
On these 3 conditions I do hereby swear. A and B are without question, the necessary prerequisites for such an act. And C is something that I believe to be quite possible sooner rather than later.
In the meantime, to fulfill requirment C to the fullest of my abilities, here is the more or less exact location of the Orcish kin. That orange culture ring can only possibly belong to their capital. Which, to mine humble eye, seems well and far away from where you seem to be, so that, if he has indeed settled closely as you say, I can think of no possible reason but aggression. I wish greatest Glory for the Sheaim on the battlefield, consuming Orcish souls corrupted by arrogance and greed.
Sincerely, and Best Wishes,
Dark Lord Flauros
Also, I have to post this map from Tasunke. It seriously made my day
Note; there was communication with Tasunke on turn 62/63 regarding his scout in my lands and how he would explain that to others (aka disguise our friendship). I was of the opinion that saying we were actually at war over a minor disagreement was ridiculous, and he could just say he needed to heal his scout and asked me to allow it after he'd declared war. (If you'll recall, Ellimist did exactly that earlier. Also, my warriors managed to Kill Orthus and win his axe, and just in time too...Now, onto turn 64...
From my own mostly abstracted C n D, I have come to the conclusion that kragroth's recent score increases are due to Pop Growth and a Technology.
Now, regardless of what we may have thought in the past, this is what I believe from the Data.
1. for the last several turns, going back to perhaps when we started Diplo, Kragroth has been building workers
2. Kragroth now has a large number of workers, working primarily on making more mines, and probably on chopping forests too. (and some cottages/farms)
3. Kragroth has been growing into his population (very recently) rather than using it for workers/Settlers
4. Kragroth has been building Warrens for, perhaps, 5 turns now. At least in the last 3 turns, I would say, and probably longer
5. We have perhaps 5-10 turns until his Warrens are completed. This is largely guestimation based on my own experiences, but also based upon his current Production level.
So, I have the following offers
Choice 1, you act against him now, and quickly. If you manage to raze even one tiny city, it forces him to choose between warriors and settlers
Choice 2, you maintain a large garrison at his border (?), but most importantly, you tech to Pyre Zombies/ Use Gold to upgrade to pyre zombies ... and you expand in other directions. While using Pyre Zombies, imho the best option is to attack immediately once you have like 3-5 pyre zombies, depending on how many warriors can join them, and depending on how many warriors he has in his own city.
Choice 3, Place only a few PZs on his border, and use regular warriors/scouts to help you expand in all other directions (including the isthmus my scout arrived on). This is a big gamble though, because it is assuming that he will not attack you.
If you choose a military option, AND if you have significant military successes then it is possible that I could choose to join in your endeavor, and fairly split the gains.
---> Now, in this case gains would be largely in the form of territory aggreements, because it is most likely preferable to raze rather than capture, even if, just by capturing, the warrens are destroyed .... it is likely only his capital and 2nd city that are working on warrens.
NOW) if he proves to instead build his hero, well ... that does complicate things, but Pyre Zombies can still kill heroes, and it will mean that he has delayed his warrens even further. As for myself, I do have a highly promoted warrior that, under the right circumstances, might help you win the war. But timing, im afraid, is everything.
Timing is indeed everything, and I have timed things as best I can. I finish bronze working this turn. This will boost all of my warriors +1 strength. I have enough gold to upgrade my promoted warrior (he killed Orthus) to a pyre zombie. This plus Orthus' axe in the hands of 2 attacking warriors should be enough to break the defense of Shazack at least. Kragroths core cities will be considerably tougher. My worker will finish roading that hillside in 2 turns - next turn I move my warrior stack and promote to Pyre zombie on it, the one after that I make a concerted rush at Shazack. I am not sure if Kragroth has visibility of that hill. If he doesn't, his 2 warriors guarding the workers will be easy targets along with the city. Otherwise, he will have 4 warriors in the city assuming his army is not within a single turns marching distance. The plan is in motion.
I assumed my lone warrior with full 25% def plus the 20% from the city and the additional 25% inherent warrior ability was plenty in protection against a lone unpromoted lizardman. I was wrong. The next turn Jormungandr was barbarian. Graaaar. The worst part was besides the elder council gone, I had 6 turns of labor on a settler all gone. 
