Casual dueling/SG (FFH/EitB)

[Aurorarcher]

All the following is for FFH/EitB playing.

I'm little short on active games and I happened to read about Succession Games where the world was dominated peacefully with culture (I think that was the Balseraphs game). I think something similar with a crazy/silly/fun tactics for the win could be a fun game to play in group. I haven't yet figured what would be a fun idea for SG (this is where you can give your suggestion), but I'm just checking if there's even any interest to play one.

Another thing I'm looking a player for is casual dueling. Maybe play with some civs/leaders that are hardly ever used, or on some wild map, etc. or whatever we feel like a fun thing to do.

So who's in?

[Mardoc]

I could be up for a SG, I've got some time at the moment. I like the idea of playing some sort of variant, too: find a corner of the game that isn't often used and showcase it. I don't want to do another Perpentach game, though; I like the discussion as much as the actual play.

Not going to sign up for duels until I get my Duel League games finished and out of the way.

Brainstorming:
1) Sheaim gate domination: Play as the Sheaim, goal of world conquest, prohibited from using any non-gate units. Pick appropriate foes: Elohim, Kurios, Bannor, etc. Apply some sort of limited exception to not die to the barbs - maybe built units allowed but may not leave the borders or fight offensively?
2) Bannor crusade: See above, substitute town-built demagogs for gate units
3) Sidar OCC, emphasize Wanes?
4) Illians, thematically? Aim to use every ritual and win with Auric Ascended, rather than skipping the junk rituals?
5) Tiny islands! A full-blown naval game. If Lanun, foes are also Lanun
6) Hyborem or Basium, limited to using only upgraded Manes/Angels to fight?
7) Elohim, focus on Tolerant? Conquest game, pick interesting opponents to conquer, no razing permitted, etc?

Basically all my suggestions are to take a civ and play them thematically rather than optimally. I'd be up for other things if those don't excite people, that's just the way my mind is going at the moment.

Hmm, one more: No settlers, Deity Raging Barbs. It made a fun PBEM, and I think it'd be fun as a SG too.

[DaveV]

I could be up for a SG, I've got some time at the moment. I like the idea of playing some sort of variant, too: find a corner of the game that isn't often used and showcase it. I don't want to do another Perpentach game, though; I like the discussion as much as the actual play.

Not going to sign up for duels until I get my Duel League games finished and out of the way.

Brainstorming:
1) Sheaim gate domination: Play as the Sheaim, goal of world conquest, prohibited from using any non-gate units. Pick appropriate foes: Elohim, Kurios, Bannor, etc. Apply some sort of limited exception to not die to the barbs - maybe built units allowed but may not leave the borders or fight offensively?
2) Bannor crusade: See above, substitute town-built demagogs for gate units
3) Sidar OCC, emphasize Wanes?
4) Illians, thematically? Aim to use every ritual and win with Auric Ascended, rather than skipping the junk rituals?
5) Tiny islands! A full-blown naval game. If Lanun, foes are also Lanun
6) Hyborem or Basium, limited to using only upgraded Manes/Angels to fight?
7) Elohim, focus on Tolerant? Conquest game, pick interesting opponents to conquer, no razing permitted, etc?

Basically all my suggestions are to take a civ and play them thematically rather than optimally. I'd be up for other things if those don't excite people, that's just the way my mind is going at the moment.

Hmm, one more: No settlers, Deity Raging Barbs. It made a fun PBEM, and I think it'd be fun as a SG too.

Cool ideas. For 1), we could just play as Averax and not have to worry about barbs.

I like 1, 4, or 7. Straightforward rules, potential for reasonable challenge but still fun.

[Aurorarcher]

Great suggestions, Mardoc!

I like the idea to play the game thematically rather than optimally - that could be a lot of fun.

I also like 1, 4 and 7. The most interesting one of these with a quick thought is probably 1. It's simple enough and also gates are so rarely used in PBEMs that it could be fun to see them go wild!

How many players would be a good number for a SG (never played one)? What do you guys think? Too many players makes it such that turns come too rarely to each - which could make things a little boring. Maybe everyone should play like 10 turns before switch, make that 1-5 turns later when the turns start to take a lot more time?

[Bobchillingworth]

I'll sign up if you find yourselves needing players; if you can get enough otherwise to run an SG I'd rather lurk.


No Settlers sadly probably won't work out too well without someone editing the map to give the AI several free settlers. They won't capture barbarian cities at anything resembling a reasonable rate even on Deity and they mostly just sit around and march stacks back and forth through their territory due to the "barb smasher" script kicking in. Even setting a really high Advanced Start point value won't do much, since the AI spends most of it on techs and tile improvements.


A Sheaim gates game sounds pretty cool, although the lack of unit variety might get kind of monotonous.



One idea that I had for an Adventure I never got around to running was for a "Most Extreme Elimination Challenge" variant, combining the Final Five, Increasing Difficulty and High-to-Low. It's definitely possible (I've completed a SP game that started on Monarch), but there's a major luck component as well.

[BRickAstley]

I've done #4 before SP on an Erebus map (which made it too easy), but it was a lot of fun. I've also done #3 before a long long time ago; All I remember was I ended up with a strong hippus on one side and a strong calabim on the other, and when I attacked one the other settled the empty space and got stronger.

I'd throw my hat in to try any of them (except maybe #2, sounds a bit dry).

[Mardoc]

I have been wanting to play the Sheaim again; it'd be my favorite of 1, 4, 7. I like DaveV's suggestion for Averax, except I'm a bit worried that an AI might swarm us before KotE. Maybe play as Averax but allow defensive warriors (and go by the spirit of the rule, not the letter, so build the minimum possible)?

I suppose the alternative is clever beelines. KotE is easy to bulb, anyway. Maybe with a little planning and a little luck, we can make it work. If not, at least we'd find out early enough to restart with a modified ruleset.

How many players would be a good number for a SG (never played one)? What do you guys think? Too many players makes it such that turns come too rarely to each - which could make things a little boring. Maybe everyone should play like 10 turns before switch, make that 1-5 turns later when the turns start to take a lot more time?

I tend to think 3-5 players is the sweet spot. More than that and you don't recognize the empire when it comes back, instead of being impressed at the growth. Plus it can be too long between sessions so you forget to check for updates. 2 - well, Sirian/Charis and Sirian/Sullla made it work, but they were all awesome reporters. I think the three of us could be a reasonable number (assuming Bob's lurking), but I'd leave it open for signups for another day or so. Anyone who misses it can grab another variant idea and start a second .

Edit: Ah, crosspost. Hiya, Brick! Four is definitely enough. I'd be happy with five, too, and maaybe stretch to six. If we get 7+, I'd want to split into two games.

Typical SG is something like 20/15/10 turns or 20/20/15/10 for the first round, then 10's, then cut down to 5's later. But always leave the option open for 'I ran out of time, here's the first half of my turnset, next player is up' to avoid pauses.

No Settlers sadly probably won't work out too well without someone editing the map to give the AI several free settlers. They won't capture barbarian cities at anything resembling a reasonable rate even on Deity and they mostly just sit around and march stacks back and forth through their territory due to the "barb smasher" script kicking in. Even setting a really high Advanced Start point value won't do much, since the AI spends most of it on techs and tile improvements.

Ah, I didn't realize that. I guess it wasn't a coincidence that you really wanted to play that one as PBEM.

A Sheaim gates game sounds pretty cool, although the lack of unit variety might get kind of monotonous.

Potentially - but I would think that playing a fraction of the turns, and choosing our tech tree based on the gate rather than normal considerations, will be enough to keep it interesting. If it gets too boring, we can add some spice mid-game.

One idea that I had for an Adventure I never got around to running was for a "Most Extreme Elimination Challenge" variant, combining the Final Five, Increasing Difficulty and High-to-Low. It's definitely possible (I've completed a SP game that started on Monarch), but there's a major luck component as well.

I don't particularly like High-to-Low, personal preference. I'm too much of a builder at heart, I guess, it feels like taking my toy away right when I was getting good at it.

[Qgqqqqq]

At least Raging Barbs doesn't showcase as god-awful an AI as AW does. I get the feeling they're hard-coded to never use settlers during wartime...


Also, you should probably wait for v12, as all of the main options look like they're run around changes about to be made. Running a little behind schedule due to personal tragedy and other commitments, but should be out in the next 2-3 days. Mainly a concern because in SG you generally generate the saves a few days before starting, and the savefile format is changing so you won't be able to "upgrade". (I can generate and post pics, though, if you want?)

[DaveV]

Proposed rules:

We are Averax of Sheaim. We may never have more than two warriors per city. No other military units may be built (unlimited workers and settlers). Goals:

1. Armageddon!
2. Conquest.
3. Spawn at least one of every planar gate unit.

[jalepeno]

If you guys are still ok with 5, I'd love to join in.

Difficulty level...? might want something a bit lower (i.e. monarch?) as it'll take a while to get the Armaggedon counter up high enough to start getting units.