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As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer |
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Holy Warriors - Civilization 5 (BNW) Succession Game
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(July 15th, 2015, 17:41)yuris125 Wrote: OK sorry guys, I'm having a crazy week at work, and have found myself too tired to play both last night and tonight. I can promise to play on Sunday at the latest, but can't promise earlier. Ichabod can you go before me please to keep the game moving? Ok, I'll play tomorrow or friday.
Since costumer protection services seem to be on my back, I'll refrain from baiting and switching...
 *Russia was in Honor and Tradition, so we could go for Patronage and the FP. I bulbed the GWriter in the middle of my turnset to adopt Patronage opener and start the FP. Sweden was in Patronage, so I wanted to make sure we could start the FP soon (and we were about to lose a culture CS friendship, so our cpt was going to fall). Since we haven't even discussed what ideologies to go for, I thought bulbing him now was a better idea. T171:  *One cannon shot was enough to take Grand River HP to 0, but there was no unit that could reach it to capture it. I promo healed and pillaged with the Catapracht that almost bit the dust in the interturn. I retreated the Trebs and advanced with the musketman. *Spy couldn't steal anything from Russia, sent him to Sweden. *Food route to Divinity. T172: *Captured Grand River (raze), missed screenshot with the gold captured. Cleaned up some of Iroquois units around. Moved units to prepare the attack on Onandaga, keeping out of range to heal a bit. *On the interturn, Sweden declared on the Iros too. T173:  *Rome and Sweden were going in against the Iros and I could only see a mohawk warrior, so I moved to the Onandaga front. If more roman and swedish units moved in, we'd end up being obstructed. *Food route to Marrakesh, went from 10t to grow to 4 turns to grow. Still, the governor is pretty dumb. *Brazil stole Physics. T174:  *I (thought I) had to move the scout to defend one of the cargo ships against that annoying trirreme, so I missed the turn with the barb camp cleared. Another warrior was created on the interturn. Luckily, it only took 2 shots to kill him and we ended up clearing the barb camp, albeit a bit later. *We capture Onandaga, after a crossbow attack, 2 cannon shots (the volley promoted cannon - +50% against cities - really does work) and a musket attack to capture. I peace out with the Iros after that. We end up with one happy to spare and -18 gpt. *A Great General is born on our Capital, Oliver Cromwell. *Sweden denounces us. They cancel the salt deal we had and refuse to do it again.  *On this turn I made what can perhaps be considered another questionable decision. I wanted to do something about Onandaga's religion, to get Protestantism out of the map. A missionary costed 320 faith, an inquisitor costed 320 faith, and a GPro costed 800 faith. I ended up buying a GPro, since buying a missionary + inquisitor pair would cost almost the same. Besides, we'll get a new GPro soon, with the Piety finisher, so the cost would go up soon. He successfully spread Druidism to Onandaga on turn 180, so we need to decide what to do with him afterwards. *To overcome the gpt deficit, I sold truffles to Brazil for 7 gpt and Silver for Russia to 7 gpt. The last one was incredibly stupid, because after Grand River was razed, I traded our only silver.  Perhaps we could annex Onandaga, buy a courthouse there, and buy the new silver tile...T175: *Met Cahokia. *GSci is born from GPP points. He's still unused, because I didn't see a reason to bulb for the techs we are currently teching, since we don't have faith to purchase units. *This is the turn where I bulbed the GW to start FP in Faith, since it had finished the Ceil (?) Hall.  *The spy I sent to Sweden discovers that they plan to attack Russia (no tech steal possible, so I sent him back to Faith). Sweden has a lot of units, that were all converging to Iros last city. I positioned our units close to them, in case we decide to do an alpha strike to take a good portion of their army on the first turn. T176: *Catherine beat us to Tower of Pisa. Start Globe in Devotion, mainly so we can fulfill Almaty's quest. I think we need to work on the alliances with military CSs, it's a very good way to get units. *Grand River is no more. T178:  *That's quite a bit of units, really. *Portugal and Brazil denounces us. T179: *Finally decided to make peace with Morocco. They celebrate by denouncing us on the following turn.  *After Sweden captured Buffalo, they prompted this on us. I tought a lot about it. Our troops were in position to take Sweden and I had blood on my eyes. In the end, I said we weren't planning an attack, reasons being: I didn't know if they'd get to attack first if I declared war; they are supposedly planning to attack Russia, which is pretty good for us; they have a pretty big army, honor policies and a GG (ours hadn't arrived yet - moving around is getting pretty bad, now that there's a lot of units in the map). Finally, we'll need artillery to take Sweden out, because the geography of their lands is very annoying.  *Sweden is burning Buffalo Creek, by the way. And Iros are no more. --- Things to note: *I went Amphis in Piety and Divinity, to start the UB afterwards. *Marrakesh went market -> bank; Onandaga went Circus, so I didn't annex them yet. *DoF with Russia ended, they refused to renew it. Still friendly, though. *We need to decide what to do with the GSci. *We need to decide where to send the GPro after Onandaga. Bomb Russia? Convert the NE city states? Convert the swedish cities? *Who to attack next? I think we wait to see if Sweden really attacks Russia and we go after Sweden. What happens if we break the promise I made to Sweden that the units were only moving? *I deleted a caravan so we can do another Cargo Ship, so build one of those after the UB in Divinity, most likely. *Sweden, Brazil, Morocco and Portugal denounced us because of our warmongering ways.  Rome still loves us, though!  Save: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2124...0.Civ5Save
Nice work.
Yes, the "declare or GTFO" gives the AI the first shot, so saying no is usually correct. The only penalty if we do declare is more enmity from all the AIs. By now I think we can sustain that though. If Rome does get mad, then we just kill them sooner before going east to Brazil/Portugal. That is a lot of Swedish units, so yeah maybe that faith would have been better spent on units.  Not sure who we want to attack first out of Sweden/Russia. Don't count on Sweden actually declaring on Russia anytime soon, the AIs can go as long as the entire game "plotting" without ever actually declaring. Any chance we could get either of them to agree to war on the other? Probably not if they both denounced us.I'd say to keep the Prophet do the same thing on the next capitals we conquer, whichever order we do them in. GSci will bulb of course, the question is what and when. I guess probably just do Dynamite when it will finish the tech, don't think there's anything else of major importance. Militaristic CS only need friendship not alliance to get units, alliance speeds it up but only by a little bit (20 turns to 17 I think.) I agree we want some, but not sure about spending money on them vs saving for courthouses/factories. Bank is a weak build in Marrakech so it might be time to consider annexing. I think we're OK on happy if we buy the courthouse right away - I think (may have changed in some patches) that an annex with a courthouse is the same unhappy as a puppet. I'm fine with testing and reloading if anyone wants to.
very quick comments, will have time to look at save tomorrow
-stop worrying about religion in newly captured cities. it doesn't mean that much, we buy all our units out of Devotion anyways. definitely not worth spending faith on inquisitors or missionaries, unless Devotion got propheted. -don't worry too much about gold deficit. -if we want to fight sweden next, I think we'd have to defend near onodaga first, too many units to charge straight on through.
I’m too inexperienced with civ5 warfare to have a strong opinion on the big questions: who the next target is, or whether we should wait for Artillery for more fighting.
-I think hold onto the GS for now. Getting to dynamite before the Reformation policy doesn't help, so may as well hold on and bulb for slightly more beakers later. (if we get globe, we could bulb that writer, but still think hold onto that writer for ideologies.) -On annexing puppets and happiness right now we have 12 unhappy from 13 puppet population, so it's barely less than 'normal' population. So annexing (with courthouse) is slightly worse happiness, a little more science (although a drop in the bucket, and we seem to agree that after Dynamite and factories to unlock ideology, further research rate not very important), and higher policy costs. I think it is worth doing Marrakech now, so we can tell it to do the cheap happy builds (circus, colosseum). It has a lot of production potential, especially if we move some food tiles to the hills (probably should do anyways, limit growth for happiness reasons; this is also a reason to take control); maybe even build the courthouse instead of buying? onondaga is doing a useful build right now (circus) so let it sit a while. It’s too bad the mercantile CS haven’t had many aligned quests; perhaps Sistine in the capital after Forbidden for Vilnius is worthwhile? if happniess too crunched we may have to just throw a lot of gold at one of them. Micro: have Divinty take a hill from the cap to finish its Celidh Hall this turn. That may keep us right at neutral happiness (Ichabod noted the sugar deal expiring, but it’s still technically in effect this turn and we lose its happy next turn). Units - maybe a musket next, then save faith for Artillery? We can save any amount of faith without a prophet spawning now right? Ideologies: I’m pretty convinced that Freedom (for Volunteer Army) trumps the other choices. Those foreign legions will be the last frontline units we ever need so we can save faith for artillery. The Order courthouse thing sounds good but comes way too late (level 3 means we need the two free ‘tenets’ for first-to-ideology plus 4 more policies). Autocracy has some nice stuff but I don’t think anything (looking 3-4 tenets deep) as strong as the foreign legions. Roster: I’m out of town starting Wendesday night for a week and a half, so I’d like to do a set before then if possible. If yuris can play this weekend I could do Monday or Tuesday night. 
I finally managed to look at the save. Sorry I'm being so slow, the week has been crazy, glad it's over
I'm inclined to attack Sweden before Russia. Two reasons: first, our army is in position for a strike on Sweden, but will take ages to reach Russia; second, Russia has the Great Wall, which obsoletes with Dynamite. It wouldn't stop our offence, but it is an annoying wonder, and I would prefer to delay attacking Russia, until it's obsolete if possible I admit that I have no respect for Civ5 Ai, especially for its warfare ability. When I think we can take out Sweden with the 8 units we currently have in the region, I may be too optimistic. But I don't think it would be able to hold us off, especially if we attack its units and reduce the size of the army before approaching cities I would wait for Buffalo Creek to burn down (it will also let our GG and two units behind the main army to join up), and then strike. I would like to take out Sigtuna and Osininka in addition to Stockholm, and leave Sweden with Helsinki and Birka. Then we can turn our attention to Russia. Any thoughts on Swedish cities to capture, and on which ones of them should be razed? I would like to stockpile faith to buy Artillery when we hit Dynamite. We can also buy a couple of up to date melee or mounted units to support the Artillery attack. I don't think there's any rush with that, as I expect us to not need Artillery for the strike on Sweden. The mountainous Swedish terrain does make offence without Artillieries a little more difficult, but nothing we can't overcome I think I also would prefer to bulb Industrialism rather than Dynamite, as we don't need Artilleries until we're ready to attack Russia. so there's no rush to finish the tech. Bulbing Industrialism would be for more beakers, and should give us a beaker burst at the crucial time, when we need to get that first to ideology bonus So my plan for this turnset is to attack Sweden, try to reduce the size of their army, and make progress towards Stockholm when it's safe. We don't need to worry about Osininka in the backline of the offence as it's a puppet and can't produce units. Build whatever makes sense in the cities at home. Keep researching Dynamite, but don't bulb. Don't spend faith in this turnset
If the sugar deal says it ends on this turn (180) then we do NOT get its happiness this turn, unless the AI pops up asking to renew it, but that doesn't always happen. Always been an annoying flaw in Civ 5's logic. The deal expires at the end of 180 and then our city processing starts on 181. Civ 4 fixed this by doing it the other order, production happens after you click end turn but before the date rollover.
Sweden as next target and that plan on cities sounds fine, but like timmy I'd want another unit or even two before going in. Don't be too cocky about the Civ 5 AI. It got significantly better about focusing fire to kill targets since one of the patches. We lost one cannon at Iroquois who didn't even have as much. Yes, we can save faith indefinitely, prophets stop auto-spawning once you enter Industrial which we did at Fertilizer. Bulbing Industrialization, might be on board with that idea. There is a point that rushing Dynamite doesn't do much until we have the faith (and the reformation policy) to buy a significant number of artillery. Why would bulbing Industrialization be for more beakers? Just because it would be later? Great Wall obsoletes when Russia gets Dynamite, not when we do. It will slow our artillery if they don't have the tech yet. |
