Well a trade mission to Eltham should be danger free, barely ever have to leave either of our cultural borders to make that trip.
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Abusing Spectres to the Maximum - Sheaim Succession Game
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July 19th, 2015, 09:24
(This post was last modified: July 19th, 2015, 09:25 by Aurorarcher.)
 (July 19th, 2015, 07:30)flugauto Wrote: I recall great merchants can enter foreign territory without open borders. Yeah, they can. But can't they move faster with OBs? I was mainly saying get OBs for possible TRs to the otherside of world later (Luch, Clan maybe later). (July 19th, 2015, 07:46)BRickAstley Wrote: Well a trade mission to Eltham should be danger free, barely ever have to leave either of our cultural borders to make that trip. Not quite if they have hidden nationality units (captured units for example). But that's quite unlikely obviously.
I didn't have anything in particular in mind for the Merchant, just didn't have the time to think it through and didn't want to commit us to anything without that.
That said, I just popped back in to the save to test some options. I can't figure out how Jalepeno tested that a trade mission would be worth 900 g - but I did look at a Golden Age. It would be 12 turns. With our current tiles, it would give us 75 gpt, 39hpt, some GPP. Presumably it will improve through the course of the GA as we keep growing. So on the low end, that's 900 gold, 468 hammers, and an uncertain amount of GPP. Plus whatever snowball benefits we get - maybe more Markets, maybe earlier Gates, maybe an extra city or two - hard to count. The only real cost is that we won't have our 1GP golden age available anymore - might make it hard to get into Slavery, since I don't think Philo is likely to come in the next 12 turns. Although - it might be doable to claim both KotE and Philo with GA-boosted research, so possibly the GA saves us a turn as well. It seems to me that the golden age is strictly superior to a trade mission. Same commerce boost, plus a lot of hammers and some GPP to replace the Merchant with. Before I ran the numbers, I preferred the trade mission, but now I don't think so.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker
Thanks for running the numbers, Mardoc! I wanted to do that but just didn't have the time at that point. Losing the 1GP GA sucks but otherwise I think going into GA is better.
(July 19th, 2015, 12:22)Mardoc Wrote: That said, I just popped back in to the save to test some options. I can't figure out how Jalepeno tested that a trade mission would be worth 900 g - but I did look at a Golden Age.Select merchant, hold down shift (queues moves), select "go to" the city you want to test, then the trade mission option will open up and you can hover over it to see how much it's worth. Then just hit esc key to cancel the queued go-to order. Quote:It seems to me that the golden age is strictly superior to a trade mission. Same commerce boost, plus a lot of hammers and some GPP to replace the Merchant with. Before I ran the numbers, I preferred the trade mission, but now I don't think so. I agree, let's do GA
Sorry guys, i'm just not getting the time the last few days to get my whole turnset in. I did get a few though.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4491...dSwordSave fired the GA after one more turn of gold, we'll grab philo next turn with plenty of time to switch to slavery. also got an OO spread if we want that. I guess whoever plays next gets to bring it to an even urn number. sorry again.
No worries Brick. Dave's up...do we want to transition to 5 turn sets now (i.e. Dave does 7, then we do 5 here on out), or something else?
Anyways, I think a free revolt to OO would be great - free culture and happiness, plus a relations boost with [I presume] the Lanun. I guess the only real danger would be upsetting our other neighbors. Also like the idea of swapping to religion/slavery during the GA.
I disagree with an OO revolt. The one city that contains that religion already has two spare happy, and I think it would do us more harm than good diplomatically. We still get +2 culture in that city even without adopting the religion.
It's probably a good time for some discussion before I play. In addition to the designated copper city, I think we should settle the Remnants/copper city 6W of it with our other settler (see my big map in post 106). It crowds Arendel a little, but it looks as though the first ring is clear (and she hasn't bothered to settle it in 150 turns). The latter city could be an amazing hammer city after popping borders. We have ten turns left in our golden age. Tech options: Philosophy - about 50% done, two turns left at break-even. Drama - bard is still available. Six turns at break-even. Best use for the bard would be for 2-man Golden Age, I think. The capital is due to pop a great person in 15 turns, currently 100% Merchant but about to get some artist pollution. In five turns we'll finish an Elder Council there and can also work a Sage. Currency - allows Consumption instead of Religion civic; also required for Revelers. Nine turns at break-even. Sanitation - helpful for Slavery; required for Succubus. Six turns at break-even. Knowledge of the Ether - our key gate-enabling tech. Three turns at break-even. Corruption of Spirit - Ashen Veil, Tar Demons, Armageddon points. Twenty (!) turns at break-even. My thoughts - our economy sucks. Consumption would help, but it would be a tight squeeze to finish Currency and Philosophy before the end of the GA, and Currency is a lot of beakers into a tech that doesn't have a lot of immediate benefit. My proposal for tech progression: Philosophy, KotE, Drama, Sanitation, Currency, Corruption of Spirit.
Yeah, don't worry about it Brick. RL happens.
Auror - I wouldn't require a 5 turn set just yet, but it's a good reminder that the option to stop early is open. I don't think the turns take that long yet, as we're not in any wars - it's just unanticipated real life interference so far. I'd be fine with DaveV doing any of 7, 12, or 17 turns, myself. @DaveV's thoughts: The Remnants site is ambitious, but you're right it's got a lot of potential. With KotE around the corner, I think we can risk potential AI anger. So I say go for it. But...don't push any further. After that, we need to backfill all that nice green stuff instead of just racking up maintenance costs. I also think we should stay out of OO. Unless we actually research the tech, it doesn't do us a lot of good, and I'm sure we want Ashen Veil instead anyway. I like your tech path proposal, except that I would leave Currency optional - we should pick it up in a GA, as most of its benefit comes from the civic - so it depends on our GP luck. Also, can we stick Animal Husbandry in there? It's cheap and would be useful. Maaybe Fishing as well? Not sure on that one, but there are cities that could use the food and it's also cheap. Plus it might enable some foreign trade? At this point, I think the best thing we can do for our economy is to grow our cities tall. Sanitation will help there, both giving the food and unlocking happiness. Three more aristofarms/city will make more difference than just about anything else we could do. Second best is to build out infrastructure: Markets, EC's, and we might even be getting to a point where a Courthouse or two would be reasonable hammers/gpt ratio. I know ECs are currently half pointless thanks to our Markets - but once we build AV temples, our beaker loss goes away in any event, at which point EC's pay off reasonably. Also - get roads built to our Open Border friends! I think we could benefit from Trade, but I guess it's not all that urgent and could wait until after Corruption of Spirit.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker |
Maybe they can even enter a city when you are at war. 
Maybe that cannot get killed. 
