Holy Warriors - Civilization 5 (BNW) Succession Game

[Ichabod]

I haven't had the time to read everything with care, but don't worry, Timmy. We all agreed on the course of action regarding declaring on Sweden, it's not like it's your fault or something like that. Besides, my GPro buy was a very dumb move (and one I didn't ask anyone about before doing too), since another unit would probably have made a big difference in the Sweden war, and I'm still playing.

There's no need for us to actually win the game, anyway, just to try our best. The variant actually ended up being way more difficult than I initially thought it would be, but that's part of the fun. Overcoming the hurdles is when the SG crew really shines!

I think we'll have a window of opportunity to attack the other Civs with the Foreign Legion units, we can perhaps plan after that. If Rome doesn't like us now, perhaps we can retreat to our core and plan to attack them from there (would walls and such buildings be worth in Devotion to do that?), with more support.

P.S.: damn, Sweden had a lot of units...

[T-hawk]

Yeah, we're not replaying a turnset or retiring somebody from the team over one stalemated war. And yes, the Civ 5 AI does counterattack much better than Civ 4 rather than parking all the units in cities waiting to die.

Once a prophet spreads, that's all he can do, can't partially use him for that then settle. Settling him sounds decently OK, what it does is shift virtual faith from the Piety finisher into real faith for artillery.

Yes, we will attack Rome next. Much easier geographically. The only reason to hold off was him being friendly, but that's no longer. Once an AI denounces, you pretty much never get back in good with them. However, we may want to pay Rome to attack Sweden to burn off some of both their units, then backstab them. Probably won't happen on my turnset at any rate.

Yes, muskets and up are still melee units, there is no metal/gunpowder distinction as in Civ 4. (I'm not sure there's any distinction at all beyond land/sea/air; all the differences between what appear to be unit types are really encapsulated in the promotions.)

We should buy any needed factories to open ideologies before World's Fair completes if possible. We don't have much need for any available policies in sight, but do have a great need for a bunch of ideologies.

Yes, windmill is crap, will find a better build, World's Fair if nothing else.

I intend to play tonight, got more time then than tomorrow and then busy over the weekend. Might be cutting team discussion short but I don't think there's anything major that I don't already have a good idea about.

[T-hawk]

So I know it was a short turnaround for team discussion, but tonight is what works for me to play, and we don't seem to have any major events on the horizon for these ten turns.

First, I move our spy out of the capital to Moscow to look for a steal. We need tech for ourselves, we don't really care about the AIs getting it from us, plus we can now build counterespionage buildings.

Pledge to protect Valletta (militaristic) because they have a Great Artist quest and we have one coming.

I put Faith onto World's Fair this turn, then onto its factory. I also run its Great Engineer since I do expect it to spawn one someday.

Holy Site is on the desert? Why? 0F 0H is a bad tile, great improvements should always be on grassland or plains for at least that basic yield.

For the current Great Prophet, I agree with sending him west to Singapore and Jerusalem for the Druidism quests. Also they will help keep other nearby cities in our fold. We do need to save his last spread for Moscow and its wonders.

T201: Industrialization in. We have Coal 2NW of Faith, already mined, excellent. Faith starts its factory which I can micro to get in 6 turns, and this should finish ahead of the World's Fair. I buy two other factories in Marrakech and Devotion, since Divinity and Piety have nothing else on tap so will slow-build it.

I moved our major units home from Onondaga, leaving a trebuchet, musket, and cataphract to guard it. I had Divinity build a couple work boats for exploring in anticipation of our steal of Astronomy.

T204: No steal available from Russia. Spy sees Red Fort due in 7 turns in the city, so don't try for that. Spy sees Catherine plotting against Sweden.

Now we've relocated our units home to Devotion. And it's clear the World's Fair is progressing slow enough (about 5%/turn) that I won't need to spend money on the third factory before it finishes for the free ideology/policy. So I pull the trigger on paying Rome to fight Sweden, for a price of 21 gold/turn. That's actually pretty darn cheap. We NEED these guys burning units on each other.



Between turns, we get a front row seat on some delicious bloodshed between the two.

T206: We do indeed steal Astronomy. It is the only steal option. The first spy still shows a steal clock, so yes Portugal must have Navigation and we can eventually steal it. I move the other spy to Singapore for an eventual coup attempt.

I built walls in Devotion, and also in Marrakech on the off chance Rome tries to flank us in that direction.



T207: Faith's factory completed and we pick our Ideology. The freebies are Universal Healthcare (happy per national wonder) and Civil Society (-1 food per specialist), and we also bulb into Volunteer Army to get the Foreign Legion units.

T208: Brandenburg gate completed, so I purchase an Artillery in Devotion. (Do it now because we can only purchase one per turn.)

T209: Purchase another Artillery. Rifling in, I guess Architecture has to be next since we'll have a steal on Navigation.

We meet Mbanza-Kongo at sea, who is militaristic. And has a gold gift quest going on. I think we should buy them but will leave it open for any discussion.

I'm passing off one turn early, because we are ready to declare on Rome if we want to next turn T210.



The units are in position. Note that the newly bought artillery can move next turn to the indicated tile NE-E of Devotion, set up, and fire on Rome city all in the same turn. The cannon occupying that square should move NE-E and set up to fire on the second turn. Also note the one Foreign Legion positioned by Neapolis, who could move towards Marrakech or Onondaga before you declare war.

Should we declare on Rome now? I think so. Rome has not shown any units newer than legion, trebuchet, crossbow. And there are few or none around Rome city as they've been moving towards Sweden and dying there. Rome is losing to Sweden at Akwesasne, with the city below half health. I expect that the two artillery and one cannon can fire on Rome city on the turn we declare, withstand one return shot, and redline it for capture in the second turn.

We are #1 in Soldiers by a fair margin; we have 129k now and the highest listed before we got the foreign legions and artillery was 90k. I could be talked into waiting for a third artillery (~6 turns) and possibly another mili-CS unit. But I think we're ready to go now. The Foreign Legions are at the peak of their power right now, while nobody else has any rifles.

[yuris125]

Yay we're ready to crush! I'm up, right? T-hawk can you upload the save?
Civ5 diplo at its best: Rome thinks "we're building new cities too aggressively" when we haven't build one for like 150 turns

[Ichabod]

Very nice, T-Hawk. Yuris is up.

*Rome sold for pretty cheap, which is really good!

*I agree with buying Mombasa Kongo. Military CSs have been vey helpful.

*Take a look if buying Russia to attack Sweden is a possibility right now. Probably not worth doing it, but just to know if we have the option.

*I agree that we should declare now. Losing Rome will likely end any chance the Romans have of resisting us and that'll happen on the second turn of the war, most likely. After that, we can wait a bit for more reinforcements, if needed.

What's our objective in this war against Rome? I say we conquer them completely, I don't like the way their cities circle ours, it'll always be a pain to move aroud with them alive. Besides, everybody already hates us, so no harm in getting even more hate. Or perhaps capture the cities that surround us and leave the cities farther away alive, as a foil for Swedish attack.

From memory, without looking at the save, keep Rome, burn the rest.

This war will enter history as "The Cocoa War". Casus belli was the thousand years long refusal from Rome to sell Cocoa to us, after taunting us with a taste of the delicacy in a diplomatic meeting.

[T-hawk]

Dammit, there's always that one guy in an SG who forgets to attach the save. It's just not supposed to be me.

Yes, Yuris is up again. Don't get too overconfident, we still don't have a whole lot of siege and artillery. Remember every lost unit is a huge irreplaceable blow. But we should be able to conquer Rome cleanly if done carefully.

Here's an overview for planning what to do with Rome's cities.




Neapolis has to go for logistical reasons, and we might even keep the city. And I think I'd say to capture Antium on the way to Neapolis. I think we can leave Ravenna which is out of the way and won't matter and Cumae which doesn't do anything for us and we can just walk around towards Russia. Akwesasme will be in Swedish hands (unless they liberate the Iroquois, which I think is possible).

World's Fair is 70% complete with our 350h contribution done. That will come in time, no rush.

I don't know what to do next with policies/ideologies. There is nothing good to do with the next one but a lot of interest in the 2nd one hence. The remaining level 1 Freedom picks all suck except maybe the 25% GPP. But the half specialist anger at level 2 is quite attractive. The one level 3 we might care about is the one for influence with city-states with a trade route.

Or back in the policy arena, we could go for Honor and Discipline for the +15% combat bonus, which we might need. We could also consider Rationalism and Secularism, since we might want to research up to Flight to help end this.

This war will enter history as "The Cocoa War".

You do know we could just take the cocoa peacefully with a Great General bomb.

[yuris125]

Right, I likely will have a first look tomorrow and play over the weekend

[Ichabod]

I think we can skip any more ideologies for now. Every option seems bad, other than the half angry specialists one, which is not needed, IMO. It doesn't really help our variant that much.

I think investing in honor to get discipline is better. Maybe even go for military tradition, just because it helps military.

[yuris125]

I'm playing, but war turns are taking longer than I expected (although we're making good progress). I will finish the turnset tomorrow

[yuris125]

2am again, and I'm still not done... sorry for another delay. I can however tell you that it's T217 and the three cities we planned to capture from Rome are captured without losses (I just signed peace getting Neapolis in the treaty)

I'm not handing off the save yet, I'm going to play the remaining 3 turns and write a report tomorrow. But if you want poke around, here's the current state. We want to attack Russia next, right? They really don't like us, came to me 2 times during the turnset telling me that I'm so terrible, I should die of shame