[PB25-SPOILERS] The Lunacy of the Reign of HAK Continues

[MindyMcCready]

Just completed a SIM using the tiles as they are now (even working the cottages) as our worst case scenario. Basically a scenario where on T159 (last turn of our GA) we do all the civic swaps, including going from Bureau to Nationalism. This also doesn't included the extra workshop that will be completed in 4 turns.
In this SIM, on T161 we have 559H invested into the Taj, and it allows me to do a 7pop whip, which jumps it to 709. The remaining tiles can be maxed out to get me an additional 52H for a final result of completing Taj T162 at 761/700H. So if I'm correct, even if Commodore also completes Taj on T162, he would need to have his T161 bringing it to more than 761H to beat me, right?

In a little bit I'll run another SIM using methods of possibly starving the city for a couple turns to get more hammers earlier on to see if there is a way to whip it 1 turn sooner. The first option I will use is that of not switching out of Bureau on the last turn of our GA. Just means we would have to wait 5 more turns (in the next GA) to be able to start drafting...which will be well into any war if Gavagai decides to attack me once the Peace Treaty ends.

Taj is 700H,...we'll get to keep all of this OF. :LOL:

Also, when 2 civs complete a wonder on the same turn it becomes a coin-flip.

Risks to this plan:
-Another GA from MC. You probably need to go back and check if MC has extra GP lying around. Also, he's philo so he might pop a bunch out during this GA. Our estimate has MC getting the hammers in place on T161 so,...we'd still have a coin-flip chance unless he also switches to Slavery.
-A disruption to our marble as mentioned. Given that our marble is right on the border, we probably need to shop around for another source. I believe that putting a spy on a tile either increases the EP cost or it increases the probability of discovery/mission failure. I really recommend getting one on our marble tile.

So to be clear, no civic change until T159. Then we look like (HR, NH, Slavery, Merc, OR)
-I like begin in NH earlier since we need to start building up enough units. It looks there's going to be some 3-way tension with no cultural control between the #1--#3--#4 powers. That could tie up a lot of MC's units.

Thoughts on MC's low garrison in Grimaceland.
-If the fort completes by Hungry we could plant 14-16 units via galley on the forest 1S3E of Hungry forking those 2 cities. The real objective would be Dragon Slave so that we could control that channel and prevent MC from coming up our back end again.
-If we are going to sail our navy over to Hungry we have to make it very clear to Tasunke that our navy is moving that way. We'd need to offer him Anxious (in exchange for his biggest cities) to draw attention to that area. We'd never catch him by surprise again, but we'd sure look like we're allies. A second offer of Hungry + Iron horse would convey the purpose of the navy.
-We could also try to give Retep a heads up asking him to participate.
-Overall we owe MC for that city raze + better now than with MC having Cuirassiers + why make another enemy especially one that's looking like he's going to have galleons soon. If Tasunke would just up his military on that island we could stop thinking about this.

[MindyMcCready]

I haven't read your last post but just wanted to ask this question quickly: why are you building the Monastery in Sleepy? I don't think that that's going to increase your overflow. Also, if we need reseach/wealth so badly why not put that city on research/wealth and allow some other city to build something better than a monastery?

10% science on a hammer-intensive, size7 (:LOL capital isn't going to generate as much of a return as getting some rathuses/LH/Settlers up I don't think.

[MindyMcCready]

Since as you can see from the screenshot, it is using every penny of my treasury to only just barely get the tech. So if we somehow lose even 1 GPT at the turn flip, this won't work. Just like how Commodore missed his own getting Nationalism by a turn because of Elkad's war declaration.

So,...what about the capital on wealth to preserve overflow?

And ohhh, ahhh,...a Size *8* capital and 1T earlier. Double-win!

Yeah, the floor acts a truncation.

Thanks GJ!

[HitAnyKey]

So to be clear, no civic change until T159. Then we look like (HR, NH, Slavery, Merc, OR)
-I like begin in NH earlier since we need to start building up enough units. It looks there's going to be some 3-way tension with no cultural control between the #1--#3--#4 powers. That could tie up a lot of MC's units.

The last SIM I did, did include remaining in Bureau and not swapping to NH. I'll try another sim with switching to NH on T159 as well. See if we can still whip on T160.

[HitAnyKey]

I haven't read your last post but just wanted to ask this question quickly: why are you building the Monastery in Sleepy? I don't think that that's going to increase your overflow. Also, if we need reseach/wealth so badly why not put that city on research/wealth and allow some other city to build something better than a monastery?

10% science on a hammer-intensive, size7 (:LOL capital isn't going to generate as much of a return as getting some rathuses/LH/Settlers up I don't think.

I actually debated between doing a Monastery or Aqueduct. Both would have given the same resulting 33H overflow into next turn. Decided on Monastery since I figured the extra 10% was better than the extra health for right now.
But per your next post, I didn't think about having the city do wealth (or research) to preserve the current 28H overflow. The difference of those 5H probably won't affect things, and might allow another city to keep building something other than research.
I'll do a quick check in my SIM to see if having just the 28H overflow into the Taj is ok such that we can still whip on T160.

If so, then I'll log back in, switch the capital and find another city that can keep doing it's normal build.

[HitAnyKey]

This was the end result of the build queue last turn:



And that got us Nationalism this turn.
Here are the new specifics for this turn:

Also, I'll have my new Workshop online next turn (was able to get another worker over there this turn to help). So I'll redo my SIM to see if it helps...which I doubt, since it only adds a few extra hammers.

[MindyMcCready]

More settlers! Who needs libraries anyway? Joking aside,...those libraries are in strong tech cities to be sure just a reminder that we want every last margianl city settled for when we hit merc. 3 trade routes (+6 to +9 cpt?) + 2 specialists (+6 gpt). Gawd,..if we get Representation fast enough we could be the tech leaders having only built a half-dozen libraries. This civic is pretty insane now.

So MC is going naval for whatever reason. Battle island seems most likely,...dominating our waters for forking opportunities also seems possible. Or battle Island + keeping us off the island,...

What's our culture like next to COA? How much visibility do you actually have of MC's cities and units. Be aware that a tile that's not in a city's BFC will probably be invisible to you. In PB13 WLP and I looked hard to find spots that Retep couldn't see when we suspected that he had city visibility. We'd have to make sure that none of these exist (or send in a spy to confirm) before we make a move.

Definately leaning to hitting MC. I don't really want to give away our naval surprise if we can avoid it. We can probably fork the 3 Dragon cities (Dragon Slave, Dragon Soldier, Dragon Herdsman) with HAs while moving up a 1 mover stack to COA. If we can land 2-3 razes and then get out that would be good. I really like the idea of telling MC it's a retaliation for his razing of Rolling Eyes,....

[HitAnyKey]

More settlers! Who needs libraries anyway? Joking aside,...those libraries are in strong tech cities to be sure just a reminder that we want every last margianl city settled for when we hit merc. 3 trade routes (+6 to +9 cpt?) + 2 specialists (+6 gpt). Gawd,..if we get Representation fast enough we could be the tech leaders having only built a half-dozen libraries. This civic is pretty insane now.

Heh, was wondering when you'd "complain" about those Library builds.
But yeah, I really wanted it in Frantic. It basically ALWAYS will be working tiles that have commerce and likely rarely whipping, so I want it contributing to the research effort.
Belligerent could probably do something else at the moment. Hmm, maybe I could have it build the other Settler for that island...that way we don't even need to have a Galley over there to get it to the island. So when I log in next I might switch that to Settler. And since we'll be in Slavery soon, I'll have it whip the settler when possible.

Oh and in my most recent sim that I just did, was able to get the whip on T160 to be only a 5pop whip. So now it'll be a size 9 city (and growing) while we're stuck in Bureau for a few more turns past that point.

[MindyMcCready]

What do you think about redeploying our 8 HA in Borscheland over to our main continent. From my SIM 8 HA won't be enough to flank away cats vs Gavagai while they could help with a city raze or 2 vs MC.

We're not likely to get more than 1 -2 city razes from MC since he can move units since MC could move units from say Triplet to Dragon Soldier in just over 2 Ts. Still it's better to disrupt him now than once he gets Cuirassiers.

[HitAnyKey]

What do you think about redeploying our 8 HA in Borscheland over to our main continent. From my SIM 8 HA won't be enough to flank away cats vs Gavagai while they could help with a city raze or 2 vs MC.

We're not likely to get more than 1 -2 city razes from MC since he can move units since MC could move units from say Triplet to Dragon Soldier in just over 2 Ts. Still it's better to disrupt him now than once he gets Cuirassiers.

I'll think about it, and likely start moving some of the HAs already transferred in that direction now that the invasion of Battle Island is now on hold/cancelled. I think we should definitely still keep at least a few HAs in Borscheland. Never know when a quick-mover might come in handy.