WW40 - Game Thread

[BRickAstley]

Oh, and if BRick really was a vanilla villager, which seems like a fishy claim in retrospect, the only possible reactions to torture mentioned by Serdoa are gaining a new win condition and changing alignment. So he's a good lynch either way, ironically.

Why is it so crazy that I can not have a power? Do you have inside knowledge that says everyone must have a power or something? Also you're treating examples Serdoa gave as the entire range of possible outcomes, and knowing you, Serdoa, and these games, I find it difficult for you to really believe that is the whole set of effects and that there isn't anything hidden.

Serdoa's writings are just for flavor like that other game he GMed in and I got lynched day 1. There's no way that Serdoa would point to Brick being a tanner so heavily in that last sentence. I think Brick realized he was very scummy after claiming vanilla but the hero PM has a spot for "power". This happened before he got tortured. I think he read Serdoa's writing and used Mattimeo's logic to act like a tanner but he's just scum still hoping for the easy day-one mislynch.

BRickAstley

I am 100% not a tanner (unless that is secret too). Otherwise this is a fun convoluted leap of logic you are making here. I don't feel scummy at all for claiming I am vanilla because I am reading the 'you have no power' part of my PM right here.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Oh, and if BRick really was a vanilla villager, which seems like a fishy claim in retrospect, the only possible reactions to torture mentioned by Serdoa are gaining a new win condition and changing alignment. So he's a good lynch either way, ironically.

Why is it so crazy that I can not have a power? Do you have inside knowledge that says everyone must have a power or something? Also you're treating examples Serdoa gave as the entire range of possible outcomes, and knowing you, Serdoa, and these games, I find it difficult for you to really believe that is the whole set of effects and that there isn't anything hidden.

Serdoa's writings are just for flavor like that other game he GMed in and I got lynched day 1. There's no way that Serdoa would point to Brick being a tanner so heavily in that last sentence. I think Brick realized he was very scummy after claiming vanilla but the hero PM has a spot for "power". This happened before he got tortured. I think he read Serdoa's writing and used Mattimeo's logic to act like a tanner but he's just scum still hoping for the easy day-one mislynch.

BRickAstley

I am 100% not a tanner (unless that is secret too). Otherwise this is a fun convoluted leap of logic you are making here. I don't feel scummy at all for claiming I am vanilla because I am reading the 'you have no power' part of my PM right here.

Why didn't you vote novice at once then?

If you're not scum and the torturer doesn't come forward that tells us that both novice and the torturer are scum.

Torturer if brick isn't scum you should come forward now as I don't think he can take out novice because novice will have zak backing him up. [/color]

[Mattimeo]

or you are "vanilla" and want to change your alignment?

Nah, third party is generally more fun than switching into a scum team part way through a game.
But anything with concealed info is generally more interesting than the town's hunt.

Ok so, I am the hero Kassandra.

So does that mean we're not supposed to listen to you?

Could be indicative of a flip to minion, but don't think he'd be as sure of target if he didn't know who scum were.
Novice's "hey we should lynch the person who could be potentially proven town with a seer-like claim" is also rather suspect.
novice

[Marcus Aurelius]

Oye guys, Hi!

[Marcus Aurelius]

Hmm ... this whole torture thing is kind of weird. If I read the initial post correctly it should have given some sort of answer. Therefore the most reasonable explanation is that he has some sort of 'immunity' where, even though the torture really really hurts ... he won't talk. Now, either this is his "power" which, if town, would be a red herring, or if a 'god' might at least give him a chance at avoiding a lynch.

While I'm sure looking at the metagame might be interesting, my instinct at this point would be to simply vote for BrickAstley's lynch.

[Gazglum]

So lets think for a moment - torture is a mechanism that scum can succesfully push onto a townie, and in return the town gets told who one of the scum is?

Thats the stupidest game design ive ever heard.

Brick is trying to draw out the shadow of the torturer, is what this reads as to me.

[Gazglum]

Welcome marcus!

[Gazglum]

So post-weetbix thoughts:

As far as I see it, torture will work one of three ways.

1. torturing gives a random side effect
2. torture will give a pre-programmed side effect depending on which hero/God it is used on
3. torture side effects ramp up to become more anti-town over time

As I've said, I think the third is most likely, but we can't be sure yet.

Bricks' story is that he is innocent, was tortured, and was told that Novice wants to hurt us. IF Novice is a God, then this is the most unfairly anti-scum mechanic I can imagine. The Gods would be rightfully wrathful. If a God is tortured, he is caught. If one of them is NOT tortured, a God is still caught? No way.

The only possible way I could believe Serdoa might allow that would be if torture responses are pre-chosen for different characters, that happened to be Kassandra's amazing power, and the Gods were unlucky enough that she was the first one in the torture tent.

Torture could be used to spread misinformation - that seems much more plausible. In that case, 'Novice wants to hut us' could just mean that NOvice is in favour of torture, which we already know. Or Novice has some character power involving pain. If Brick is telling the truth, I think Novice is still probably town based on 'fair game design' arguments.

But really, I think this is classic ScumBrick. As soon as he was put in the tent he knows he's caught, its just a matter of time. So the best play he can make is to try and bring down another player and draw out the torturer on the way. See like 7 other Brick games for instances of this psychology at work.

Points in favour of Brick being bad:

1. lots of posting, no real scumhunting
2. immediately in favour of torturing someone but later contradicted that position
3. ignored me when I pointed out that specific contradiction, arguing general stuff about his opinion having evolved
4. seemed to fight hard to avoid being tortured, but not because he was going to lose powers or anything, so why did it matter unless he was against us torturing on general principles? Which he had said he wasn't.
5. immediately attacked me after being tortured, then dropped it
6. THEN claims Novice is the bad guy, shortly after Rowain and Jabbz had also moved onto Novice
7. Claims to have been given a prophecy, but when? Not immediately after Serdoa publicly posted the torture message, because shortly after that time Brick voted me then disappeared.

I also think that Cassandra (unheeded prophet of Troy) is such an obvious power role that it is slightly unlikely that Serdoa would give that character and make her vanilla.

However it was pretty funny to pick her, and if it turns out you were Right All Along Brick, that's comedy gold.

So I think Brick is most likely to be scum, but I can see the argument for letting him live a day and the torturer keeping quiet while we gather more info. Though if he is scum, that helps the Gods swing the votes.

I approve of these questions towards Mattimeo.

[Gazglum]

Hmm ... this whole torture thing is kind of weird. If I read the initial post correctly it should have given some sort of answer.

I think the assumption most of us are making is that the answer was given privately to one character, but they don't want to announce it because it draws attention to their ability.

[Gazglum]

Could be indicative of a flip to minion, but don't think he'd be as sure of target if he didn't know who scum were.
Novice's "hey we should lynch the person who could be potentially proven town with a seer-like claim" is also rather suspect.
novice

Can you explain this Matt? You think Brick knows who the scum are? But that Novice is also scum? I don't get your logic, and why you are voting Novice.